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Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

element.io

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Re: Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

#101

Post by caslon »

Gigachad wrote: post #97
caslon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already like a dozen Matrix clients that don't use Electron. It doesn't take much effort to go to the Clients list and pick one out.

The problem is the group of users who have a problem with Electron also tend to have a problem with a billion other things (the size of the chat bubbles as another user commented here) so they end up never being satisfied with any client and any developer who tries to cater to them will be flooded with a wave of complaints about how the animation speed should be configurable.

I have a problem with Electron, personally. I think it's a rational thing to complain about. I just don't think that misrepresenting your case is a good thing.

Re: Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

#102

Post by desertraven »

Slightly off topic: I really like the idea of Matrix/Element, but I’ve found I can’t rely on it.

In three instances, I’ve had a long-running chats stop working completely and simply not load. All history/media inaccessible. Just a loading spinner. This is Element on iOS.

I wish it were more dependable, because things like this would excite me much more.

Re: Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

#104

Post by bb010g »

Arathorn wrote: post #46
panick21_ wrote: post #37

This is really cool. I really feel like this ecosystem is hitting its stride. The list of upcoming features is long and sometimes I don't understand how they can have so many things going on at once. Features tend to take a few years to mature, but that is not a bad thing. I will be setting up my own server shortly, something that I have been thinking about for a while and maybe try to develop something. Congrats to…

> The OpenID part, would it not be cool if Matrix would offer something like a federated SSO experience? Yes, hopefully we'll be able to use the OIDC server bundled with your Matrix server to auth users in general if wanted (or alternatively you can of course point at an existing OIDC server).

Has support for IndieAuth and/or FedCM (when stable enough) been considered?

https://aaronparecki.com/2018/07/07/7/oauth-for-the-open-web

https://github.com/fedidcg/FedCM

Re: Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

#105

Post by SamWhited »

Gigachad wrote: post #98
encryptluks2 wrote: post #19

I feel if XMPP just had some better tools this push for Matrix would be unnecessary.

If IRC had some better tools then the push for XMPP would be unnecessary. In fact, why didn't we just build IM on top of email? Turns out its much much easier to start from scratch with the right ideas than to transform an existing protocol in to something usable and convince everyone else and update all software to match. "The market" has decided that Matrix works well and XMPP doesn't. If it made sense to fix XMPP…

I don't think this is true. Matrix is largely only used by the HN crowd and a handful of open source projects. It's a couple million users max, which in this case is tiny. XMPP is used in Jitsi and Zoom and various Google products (is Firebase still based on XMPP? I'm not actually sure about this one) and on your Nintendo Switch and probably still on Playstation, and in most of Cisco's video stuff which is used by every megacorp, etc.

Re: Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

#106

Post by throwaway29879 »

Still waiting for an android release that doesn't use ~7G ram and crash consistently on desktop (14G ram, then dies, or most recently, instantly segfaults)

As usual, delusions of grandeur and horrifically over confidence in the abilities of a 45 million dollar funded gang of "developers" that have produced basically nothing in 8 years, when unfunded students have produced a discord clone in about 6 months

Re: Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

#107

Post by throwaway29879 »

Arathorn wrote: post #50
jfkimmes wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give some insights on how you estimate the amount of effort of making Element Call competitive, performance-wise, with say Discord. I heard that Discord threw a lot of time and money at optimizing voice in their product. Can you just jump in and realistically compete? There are a lot of performance/latency/sound quality comparisons online of Mumble vs TeamSpeak vs Discord and recently Jitsi vs MS Teams vs Z…

The competitive gap with Discord in terms of media quality is probably something like: * Need a low-latency SFU. This should be very doable; not only are there a lot of good FOSS SFUs to build on top of these days, the history of the Matrix team is actually that we built VoIP stacks fulltime before we shifted focus to Matrix, and we've built MCUs and media servers of all flavours in the past. MSC3401 should also give…

Can you at least let us know what "stacks" anyone involved has produced? last I checked nobody involved has ever been involved in real voice platforms (as evidenced by 8 years of "voice first" but actually producing very little actual voice integration)

Re: Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

#108

Post by crossroadsguy »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #17

> We’re also working with the Tauri core team to provide cross-platform lightweight desktop apps as soon as possible! How about a lightweight cross-platform Matrix client that doesn't rely on Electron?

I had my hopes up after seeing “native” in the title.

But then, I have decisively given up on Matrix ever being anything even remotely a solution for individual-individual kind of personal usage. But I do hope to see it being used at (my) work places soon.

There are multiple reasons for that. It costs money and I doubt the general populace will pay for that and since Matrix/element won’t harvest data and destroy privacy it’s a no go. They don’t have limitless resources like large corps.

Fragmented apps, using different severs (let alone running the server itself) in the too many clients isn’t “people scalable”. (It it ever even begins to try it it has to one one single blessed server and a blessed app - which at least the current such app Element is long time from)

So no, they can’t and won’t invest in making Element mainstream for personal usage and rightly so.

So what Matrix/Element is going to be?

Slack, Google Workspace Char etc: - YES!

WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram: NO!

Re: Native Matrix VoIP with Element Call

#109

Post by soupbowl »

Gigachad wrote: post #96
chayleaf wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mumble works great for me in the meantime

Mumble doesn't really work on mobile making it not usable for most users

I've used plumble on android many times on 5g for multi hour drives with minimal issues as recently as a few months ago.
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