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Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

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Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#621

Post by asats »

Etherlord87 wrote: post #552
asats wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, if you were in power people fleeing over the berlin wall would have been shot from both sides, not just by the soviets. Cause they should have stayed inside and overthrown the soviet government. Same goes for north koreans, shoot them and send them back, let them fight the government.

^ the above is a nice example of a strawman[1]. Obviously putting sanctions on citizens of an invading country is very far from shooting them, and yet asats decided to portray his debater as a leader who would murder other people, because perhaps it's too exhausting for him to have an actual, substantive conversation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

The argument was not about the imposition of sanctions on the citizens but about punishing the mostly anti-government people that are currently fleeing the country.

Also my debater accepted the argument and wrapped himself in that straw.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#622

Post by vhgyu75e6u »

rmbyrro wrote: post #576
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>wealth generated before Yeah, "generated".

"Generated"... by Africans and South Americans. But yesterday it was OK to do what Russia is doing now.

Ah yes generated at least 200 years ago and were absolutely untouched during a Civil War and 2 worl wars destroying Europe

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#623

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

> The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy.

I'm so sorry ordinary Russians have to go through this stigma that Putins war carries. This isn't a war of "Russians" against Ukraine, it is Putins war. And while it's hard not to cheer for the underdog I hope that everyone can stop giving ordinary Russians a hard time.

This isn't me "preaching", but verbalizing to myself (first and foremost) of how I want to act in every moment, and how I respond to violence from the comfort of a (currently) safe country when my lizard brain is under perpetual bombardment with visuals of horror and injustice.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#624

Post by ip26 »

BbzzbB wrote: post #473
bitcharmer wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would I take responsibility for something I have zero influence over? Well, nothing will ever change in Russia even post-Putin with that mindset. And Russia's neighbors will pay the price of this passive attitude. Other European nations are definitely showing more responsibility. This is just disappointing.

Easy for us in the West to show responsibility when it's not our and our families' lives that are on the line. Our non-willingness (if political decisions can be considered collective, as so many here imply for Russia) to die is made obvious by the fact no one nation dares put a boot on the ground while Ukraine gets leveled.

It may actually be worse for Ukraine if NATO and Russia were to face off there. I’m no authority, but a showdown might be even more destructive.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#625

Post by muldoc »

AutumnCurtain wrote: post #172
lolinder wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for annihilating Russia's economy (even if it means civilians are caught in the crossfire) but the treatment GP received after leaving is extremely disheartening. The goal should be to welcome fleeing Russians with open arms and make it as easy as possible for them to permanently put down roots.

It's also a wasted opportunity just from a competitive standpoint. Brain draining the shit out of Russia is a totally valid strategy that boosts the host nation while hindering Russia.

No post body was provided.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#626

Post by vhgyu75e6u »

hatsubishi wrote: post #225
mkl95 wrote: post #90

There's nothing surprising about it. There is at least one recent, well documented case of mass emigration due to the economic collapse of an authoritarian regime. Millions of people have left Venezuela since the late 2000s [1]. Considering Russia is barely richer than Spain whilst having 3x the population and the fact it's about to get much worse, I would expect millions of Russians to leave in the next few years. […

Spain is a very rich country though, 10th in the world by total wealth. What you're comparing is the current GDP, which is a different thing than being rich, it's production. In Spain production may be lower but still people enjoy a great quality of life because they are living of the wealth generated before, i.e. everything is extremely cheap including real estate.

> everything is extremely cheap including real estate

If you have the salary of SV sure, the real state is cheap but for those working and living in Spain it is not

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#627

Post by throwaway_4ever »

ThalesX wrote: post #530
throwaway_4ever wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It originated as a consequence of a burgeoning free media environment due to the proliferation of smart phones and the internet. The younger generations, with their higher level of fluid intelligence, are able to approach things with better critical thinking and navigating the complexities of the internet world. The older generations aren't able to adapt and are sitting ducks for being easily manipulated by technolog…

I used to be of this opinion until I asked myself whether I'm really that fluidly intelligent and able to approach things with better critical thinking, and am not a sitting duck for being easily manipulated by technology. Turns out, I was wrong and I am human after all and there are ways to manipulate me, especially by using the technology I love so much.

Other comments here seem to be indicating this is a binary "young people unaffected, older people affected" dichotomy. No. It's about the generality. Bell curve clearly exists for many dimensions.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#628

Post by awb »

vlaaad wrote: post #329
bitcharmer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the number of Russians taking the easy way out by just fleeing or complaining about the evil west closing their Ikea stores this nation at the moment has zero capacity to take responsibility for their own government. I'm afraid it has to get much worse before it gets better. They still don't understand that as much as the government is responsible for its people, the people are also responsible for their g…

Why would I take responsibility for something I have zero influence over? He did just appear when Yeltsin said that he's leaving. He blatantly fakes elections: 146% support is a very telling result of one of these elections. It is a meme in Russia because when you can't do anything about it you can only laugh or cry. His 20 years on the throne are a constant stream of murders, poisoning and jailing of people who try…

Large scale military invasions don’t happen because of 1 person’s will. They happen as a chain of events that offer direct or indirect support that makes it possible. We are all in that chain. From the leader, to their government, to their funding sources, to the citizens.

Do you not speak up? Do you pay taxes? Do you support state run businesses? Do you go along with the system as it violently oppressed others and assassinated dissidents? We all have some responsibility to bear.

I understand you want a normal, peaceful life, but that is not what the world has chosen for you.

You can’t be neutral on a moving train.

The question is how badly do you want things to change? What are you willing to do to break your part in the chain?

If the answer is nothing, then you’re exactly the kind of citizen a dictator wants. One that will acquiesce as things get worse and worse, while still keeping the trains running on time and willing to look the other way.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#629

Post by diordiderot »

vlaaad wrote: post #329
bitcharmer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the number of Russians taking the easy way out by just fleeing or complaining about the evil west closing their Ikea stores this nation at the moment has zero capacity to take responsibility for their own government. I'm afraid it has to get much worse before it gets better. They still don't understand that as much as the government is responsible for its people, the people are also responsible for their g…

Why would I take responsibility for something I have zero influence over? He did just appear when Yeltsin said that he's leaving. He blatantly fakes elections: 146% support is a very telling result of one of these elections. It is a meme in Russia because when you can't do anything about it you can only laugh or cry. His 20 years on the throne are a constant stream of murders, poisoning and jailing of people who try…

>I want to live a normal live with my wife and kids

That's what Ukrainians want and unfortunately that's not an option for them, and now it isn't one for you either. Putin has taken that away from you.

The faster Russians realize that their fate is in their own hands the better. It's a collective action problem, Putin can't arrest everyone.

You won't live a normal life until he's gone so the question is, how do you make that happen sooner?

Easy way: General strike, 5% of people quit working, government will change. It will require personal sacrifice, and be a thankless task. No justified violence in response.

It's unlikely people care enough to make that sacrifice, therefore, sanctions.

Sanctions exist to make the cost of doing nothing more than the cost of taking action.

Medium way: Help accelerate discontent through low stakes capital sabotage. Pop tires, cut wires, set fires(didn't mean for these to all rhyme) break anything you can get away with.

Hard way: let Russia build up national industry and suffer 3rd world standards of living through your childrens entire childhood until Putin dies, wait as Russia is engulfed in a bloody internal power struggle and hope the good guys win

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#630

Post by gunfighthacksaw »

freedomben wrote: post #547
TravelPiglet wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve yet to see any homeopathy advocates and conspiracy theorists attacking other countries. Stop pretending it’s the same thing.

This black & white view of good and evil is starting to get really tiresome. Is it the effect of modern movies/tv shows that causes this belief? In movies there's usually a clear/perfect/innocent "good" guy and a bad guy, but real life is rarely so cut and dry. It is perfectly possible for there to be two different parties, each of which (to different degrees of course) make bad decisions that hurt innocent people. B…

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