Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#421

Post by Etherlord87 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

veganhouseDJ wrote: post #384

Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

I just can't believe any thinking person believes that punishing the Russian people has any chance of getting rid of Putin. He has had all the time in the world to insulate himself and plan exactly for that situation. I bet he doesn't even come in contact in person with anyone he doesn't know from the Soviet days at this point and the people he does are probably guilty of all kinds of things themselves if Putin was d…

If russians didn't support Putin, it wouldn't matter if he lives or not and if he's isolated (which is called an imprisonment btw) or not.

Russians have to decide: do you want to continue living in peace with the rest of the world, or not. In the former case, retake control of your country and stop invading, raping and murdering Ukrainian civilians.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#422

Post by bitcharmer » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

vlaaad wrote: post #329

bitcharmer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the number of Russians taking the easy way out by just fleeing or complaining about the evil west closing their Ikea stores this nation at the moment has zero capacity to take responsibility for their own government. I'm afraid it has to get much worse before it gets better. They still don't understand that as much as the government is responsible for its people, the people are also responsible for their g…

Why would I take responsibility for something I have zero influence over? He did just appear when Yeltsin said that he's leaving. He blatantly fakes elections: 146% support is a very telling result of one of these elections. It is a meme in Russia because when you can't do anything about it you can only laugh or cry. His 20 years on the throne are a constant stream of murders, poisoning and jailing of people who try…

> Why would I take responsibility for something I have zero influence over?

Well, nothing will ever change in Russia even post-Putin with that mindset. And Russia's neighbors will pay the price of this passive attitude.

Other European nations are definitely showing more responsibility. This is just disappointing.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#423

Post by BbzzbB » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

9214 wrote: post #385

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

FYI, I heard that Georgia plans to introduce visas for Russians, because local population begins to worry of all the immigrants taking jobs. Meanwhile, in Russia's remote places (small town in Ural region) some grocerry shops have imposed food rationing for essentials (sugar, bread, wheat, flour, etc) because of panic-bying. And it's snowing as if during Ragnarök, nordic end of times. Among my friends and relatives w…

Georgia and Moldova asked to joined the EU 2 days ago, the Russo-Ukrainian war basically started when they turned to the EU rather then the EAEU (Euromaiden). I'm afraid it won't be exactly be a safe place for long, I'd try to move farther away if I was exiling from Russia.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#424

Post by JamesBarney » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

axg11 wrote: post #243

optimalonpaper wrote: post #192

No one thinks that a regular Ivan from some russian city (on his own) is responsible for the war and should suffer. And I see how you could (and probably should, at some level) feel sorry for russians fleeing the country. But this is the only way to tell them that they -- collective Ivans, Russian society as a whole -- should stand up and act: they should articulate their content, they should protest against putin's…

I see both sides to this. Yes, Russians should protest against the horrible actions of their government. On the other hand, if you’re an average Russian with few/no international ties, would you really risk protesting against a government with a demonstrated track record of murdering dissidents and imprisoning protestors? NATO/the West is choosing to worsen the lives of 144 million Russian citizens due to the actions…

All the polls in Russia show more than half the population supports the special military operations in Russia.

So it's way more than a few hundred. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of soldiers who are literally invading Ukraine right now.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#425

Post by rblk48 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #2

This may very well be true, but I'm having trouble believing anything, from anyone, about the conflict. There is so much propaganda around the subject, that unless you are personally connected to an official source, I believe you can't know with any reasonable certainty. The primary source for this story appears to be public Google Trends data.

Many Blacks, Asians faced racism near Ukraine border. But according to reddit they are all Russian propaganda, some met even with more racist comments. Of course HN cleverly avoided it by not discussing it as all.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#426

Post by christophilus » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #99

Mikeb85 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because Ukrainian men don't have the choice to flee. It's not like Russians are moving away during peaceful times. It's a full on war in which one party is bombing the civilians of a democratic country, threatening NATO with nuclear war and Russians are the only ones who can actually stop it.

I still do not see the logic of punishing people who left russia - as they obviously do not support the war. If they stay and get drafted to fight in the war for real, how does this help? And sure, they could try to organize revolts - but would you? That is extremly dangerous and a million times easier said than done. Fleeing the country is a strong peaceful revolt on the other hand. Helping those people will mean he…

You’re right. I like to think that I’d stay and fight / protest if I was single. But as a father with young kids, I’d be getting the hell out of dodge; and I’d hope to find a safe place of refuge. The rest of us need to be supportive of refugees from both countries.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#427

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

tsol wrote: post #376

traceroute66 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. Its easy to say that but you have to look at the bigger picture. It's easy to say "just punish the government / the oligarchs", but as most Westerners know, these people have become extraordinarily adept at hiding their money and distributing their assets. So it is very difficult indeed to target them per-se, hence you nee…

Quoted post unavailable.

The problem is that Ukraine has the same security implications for Europe as it has for Russia.

I agree that the bear shouldn't have been poked for everyone's sake, the Ukrainians most of all. But now that it has, capitulation is not an option for Europe, no more than it was for America wrt Cuba's alignment in the 60s.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#428

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:34 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #392

traceroute66 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. Its easy to say that but you have to look at the bigger picture. It's easy to say "just punish the government / the oligarchs", but as most Westerners know, these people have become extraordinarily adept at hiding their money and distributing their assets. So it is very difficult indeed to target them per-se, hence you nee…

Although it supports the Ukrainians and that’s important, I don’t see how sanctions reduce the likelihood of wider war? It is, in its way, an escalation, though a safer one than directly entering the conflict. It seems Putin sprung this on the rest of Russia as a surprise decision. (Of course the signs were there.) Did he bother to get the support of the oligarchs or anyone else first? It’s not at all clear he has an…

> Although it supports the Ukrainians and that’s important, I don’t see how sanctions reduce the likelihood of wider war?

By reducing the capacity for wider war.

I think this summarizes it, without a focus on war capacity specifically, but the impact on war capacity flows directly from this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1499157917399...

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#429

Post by vertis » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:34 PM UTC

artyomxyz wrote: post #378

andrey123 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Disclaimer: Russian] According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests. My estimations are based on talking to my colleagues (large IT company). Yes, starting from now, protesting becomes more risky (you may go to jail for years if you get caught second time). But just a week ago, it was mostly harmless (yes, some people get arrested for f…

In some way you’re right. But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. I personally lost any hope to change it one year earlier after participating in pro-Navalny protests. Now, I just don’t want to have anything in common with this government. I’m choosing another one. And I’m not going to pay taxes to Russian government anymore

This is wisdom. There are so many great countries out there (seen through the eyes of a digital nomad). Countries that you can build in, and succeed in.

I can recommend Estonia, though it might feel too close with the current war. Also I love all the Nordic countries (haven't had the opportunity to visit Finland yet).

If you speak English and you're in IT then Australia is also a very good option -- you'll need to be sponsored, but IT doesn't have too many troubles. Great weather and AU political problems are tiny in comparison (though every country has it's challenges).

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#430

Post by grujicd » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 6:36 PM UTC

politician wrote: post #381

grujicd wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people also have no idea, except abstract one, how it is to live in authoritarian country, when access to non-government news is hard or impossible, and even saying your opinion can be dangerous. As someone who was on the receiving end of sanctions in ex-yu, despite being antiwar and going to protests, I can’t ever support wide sanctions which affect all people. Years we were under sanctions were the worst year…

You oppose sanctions. Do you support a global nuclear exchange? Sometimes bad things are necessary to forestall worse things. The stark reality of Mutually Assured Destruction is that America will turn Russia, its military, its cities, its dirt into radioactive glass if they launch their nuclear weapons. Look at this reality in the face and then decide if you still oppose sanctions.

Most sanctions have inverse effect of strengthening the authoritharian government. Maybe if you have free press and strong oposition you can use sanctions to turn population against governemnt. However, my experience of suffering under combination of sanctions and authorian government is that dictatorship gets stronger in these cases. I would even support sanctions in the 90-ties against Serbia if they increased our chances of overthrowing Milosevic. But they didn’t, quite the oposite. He only went after NATO bombing and defacto loosing all wars Serbia participated in.

It looks to me sanctions are implemented as a punishment, as a feel good move, as “we have to do something”. What’s the realistic end goal of blocking internet access, or software, or Visa/MC/Apple pay to Russia? Does it help a goal of overthrowing Putin, or strengthening his case? “We have to do something” is not a good reason if there are no positive effects, but there are negative ones.