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Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

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Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#541

Post by lanna »

temp_praneshp wrote: post #10
Teknoman117 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't work for Apple, but it seems they've managed to get this far without any leaks so I guess whatever they did regarding their WFH policy worked out for them? I had to go into the office a few times over the pandemic to use some testing equipment, but that was 7 or 8 days in the last 2 years?

My friend who works at apple (hardware/wireless stuff?) has been to the office every day, except for a brief period in March-May 2020

Makes sense when you need access to special equipment. But most of us seldom need much more than a keyboard and screen.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#542

Post by Apocryphon »

paulcole wrote: post #538
Apocryphon wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you can still simulate that commute, right? People who miss the boundaries of the office environment away from home, the social aspects, the prospect for promotions, sure. That all makes sense. But the commute? There’s nothing stopping you from biking those ten minutes before your remote job. During the quarantine you had more time than before to bike, and probably less traffic to boot. And as an aside- did…

I worked in a large open office. I also live in a tiny apartment that’s designed to be lived/slept in, not 24 hours a day in. Thanks for the tip though.

If you liked commuting so much as an escape from the tiny apartment, then maybe you should seriously try simulating it, and bike more often?

And as always, remote during pandemic is different from remote in normal times. In normal times you could work remotely from a co-working space, from a cafe, from a library, from any public space with decent internet and private rooms to take calls in. Why commit to going back into the open office?

You're welcome!

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#543

Post by closeparen »

IHLayman wrote: post #340
Ntrails wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is still primarily an on-site company. At some point I would like people to quit vilifying a completely legitimate business setup because it doesn't fit their world view. I want to be in the office, and I prefer it when my coworkers are there too. I respect that not everyone feels the same - but I do think it is up to the employer to decide. So I will be picking companies that suit my preferences.

At some point I would like people to quit vilifying a completely legitimate business setup because it doesn’t fit their world view as well. But as you can guess from my lead up, I look at it from the opposite direction. If there is no reason for software developers (or other IT professionals who don’t have to have physical access to the servers to do their jobs) to be in the office, and we have been far more producti…

For the heads-down execution characteristic of a junior role, you’re right, collocation doesn’t matter and focus does.

Past entry level we expect engineers to also be working with their colleagues to determine what to build, when, and how. In an emergency, doing this on Zoom beats not trying at all. That’s about the best I can say for it.

If you really can’t afford to live closer than an hour to your office as a software engineer, you’re woefully underpaid. More likely that is the point in tradeoff-space that you chose.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#544

Post by paulcole »

Apocryphon wrote: post #542
paulcole wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a large open office. I also live in a tiny apartment that’s designed to be lived/slept in, not 24 hours a day in. Thanks for the tip though.

If you liked commuting so much as an escape from the tiny apartment, then maybe you should seriously try simulating it, and bike more often? And as always, remote during pandemic is different from remote in normal times. In normal times you could work remotely from a co-working space, from a cafe, from a library, from any public space with decent internet and private rooms to take calls in. Why commit to going back i…

Good tips again, but I get quite a bit of exercise — 40-50 mile a week runner.

> Why commit to going back into the open office?

Because I like working in an open office with other people. The same as the pro-remote work crowd does not enjoy in an office. Neither is right or wrong — they are preferences. My plan is to find a company with employees who share my preferences.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#545

Post by paulcole »

jen20 wrote: post #540
paulcole wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a large open office. I also live in a tiny apartment that’s designed to be lived/slept in, not 24 hours a day in. Thanks for the tip though.

> I worked in a large open office. This is my personal definition of hellscape.

Neat! I hope you can understand that remote work is my personal definition of hellscape. Neither of is right or wrong — they are our preferences.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#546

Post by closeparen »

coldtea wrote: post #347
Ntrails wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is still primarily an on-site company. At some point I would like people to quit vilifying a completely legitimate business setup because it doesn't fit their world view. I want to be in the office, and I prefer it when my coworkers are there too. I respect that not everyone feels the same - but I do think it is up to the employer to decide. So I will be picking companies that suit my preferences.

> but I do think it is up to the employer to decide. Why? Seriously, many other things aren't, so why should this be? I don't mean WFH should be forced to the employer and to all employees - I mean it should be up to the employee to decide. The "completely legitimate business setup" is also a huge negative for climate change, car pollution, road congestion, family/personal life time (including time with kids), busine…

Spending a majority of my workday on Zoom is miserable. It is better than dying in the ICU. But spending the rest of my working life this way is unacceptable.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#547

Post by Apocryphon »

paulcole wrote: post #544
Apocryphon wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you liked commuting so much as an escape from the tiny apartment, then maybe you should seriously try simulating it, and bike more often? And as always, remote during pandemic is different from remote in normal times. In normal times you could work remotely from a co-working space, from a cafe, from a library, from any public space with decent internet and private rooms to take calls in. Why commit to going back i…

Good tips again, but I get quite a bit of exercise — 40-50 mile a week runner. > Why commit to going back into the open office? Because I like working in an open office with other people. The same as the pro-remote work crowd does not enjoy in an office. Neither is right or wrong — they are preferences. My plan is to find a company with employees who share my preferences.

It’s rare to find people who truly prefer the open office layout over having a personal office, or a cubicle, or a shared cube with one’s team. That’s a unique opinion that you’re free to have. For many, the depredations of the open office is a driving reason towards remote, but you uniquely do not have that hang-up. Enjoy!

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#548

Post by andrei_says_ »

jayd16 wrote: post #504
andrei_says_ wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the in-person part differ from zoom or phone?

You can catch a spare minute by the coffee machine but you have to schedule zoom. Maybe you could fire off a slack and hope for the best, but you can't really guage when a good time for a chat can be. Async communication is good but its not quite the same to try to meet someone over slack, out of the blue, like you might in the break room.

I send or get a “Can you zoom for 5min” SMS 4-5 times a week with my closest team members. I agree, this does establish a sense of immediacy and collaboration which the formality of scheduled meetings lack.

When we worked in the same office, the walk-in frequency was about the same.

The difference between the two is negligible though and not spending the extra 3h per day for commute and office lunch is night and day.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#549

Post by driverdan »

roflulz wrote: post #327
driverdan wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put your work hours in your calendar and auto decline everything outside those hours. Refuse that nonsense.

thats how you get PIPed

If you work for a company that toxic you should find a new job.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#550

Post by Qub3d »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #509
Qub3d wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine they're complaining about the technical interview. For the record, when I did the technical interview I didn't find it too onerous -- mostly a more advanced sort of FizzBuzz to check you could do some intermediate math and handle basic data structures and logic flow. My understanding is that at Apple this can vary quite a lot in difficulty or depth depending on what team you're looking at, and who is interv…

Indeed. My last onsite with apple concluded with a couple hours of grilling on how to write performant synchronization primitives on various real architectures. I was not interviewing for the relevant teams.

Yikes! I would sort of wonder if it was a test to see if you know scope. But for two hours?

I know its Apple but I'd definitely be prepared to walk out. In that situation that gives you the freedom to clarify the job description -- if they say it is in the description, I'd save everyone time and say I don't have that knowledge, thank them for their time, and wish them luck on their next n months of searching for their unicorn.

If it isn't, I'd probably go full stick-in-the-mud and explain that I could find the answers to those questions but it would be a waste of everyone's time: I'm an A player and I don't focus on irrelevant things that dilute abilities and ultimately the product (basically throw Steve Jobs at them).

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