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Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

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Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#301

Post by ismaildonmez »

mantas wrote: post #283
lolinder wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for annihilating Russia's economy (even if it means civilians are caught in the crossfire) but the treatment GP received after leaving is extremely disheartening. The goal should be to welcome fleeing Russians with open arms and make it as easy as possible for them to permanently put down roots.

The problem is how to separate Russians fleeing Putin from Russians who just look for financial comfort and still support Putin. One of stark examples is Turks in Germany still voting for Erdogan.

Turks in Germany will vote for SPD in German elections is a bigger paradox.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#302

Post by lostmsu »

vlaaad wrote: post #154
nuccy wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[disclaimer: Ukrainian here] > Older generation (who are pro-Russian) suggested being careful around young people as they may be hostile to Russians, even those who are running away from Putin Of course, instead of even attempting to change your country, where there is no war on its territory, you flee. Why should they be kind to you? > The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countrie…

Maybe because I would rather live a normal life instead of sitting in jail for 15 years for mentioning that war is a war?

Normal life?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#303

Post by jquery »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #237
skeletal88 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a colleague from Russia who moved here a few years ago. But.. still he is using talking-points that come from Kremlin's propaganda, like "The US will fight Russia to the last ukrainian" and "I would feel safer here if we weren't in NATO, this makes us a target for Russia" and "You know that it was promised that NATO wouldn't expand?" and "Your country joined the Soviet Union voluntarily". So.. even when some p…

>>>still he is using talking-points that come from Kremlin's propaganda, like "The US will fight Russia to the last ukrainian" That's considered "Russian propaganda"? We've managed to goad Putin into grinding up his conventional military in a large-scale war. We've set the Russian economy back decades. And we've so far pulled off both of these, without any NATO member paying a massive price in blood for it. Russian p…

Don’t let Putin off the hook for his own bad decision to invade. The USA did nothing but tell the world what Putin was planning, we did not goad him into it. Nobody put a gun to Putin’s head and said invade or else.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#304

Post by armchairhacker »

optimalonpaper wrote: post #192

No one thinks that a regular Ivan from some russian city (on his own) is responsible for the war and should suffer. And I see how you could (and probably should, at some level) feel sorry for russians fleeing the country. But this is the only way to tell them that they -- collective Ivans, Russian society as a whole -- should stand up and act: they should articulate their content, they should protest against putin's…

Acting in Russia puts you in a very dangerous situation. Already protestors are being jailed, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the military starts firing at or bombing or gassing protestors. Someone who starts war like this doesn’t respect civilian life, Ukrainian or Russian.

Would you, personally, put your life at risk just to be one more protestor?

I agree that Russians should stand up to Putin, but honestly it’s a lot easier and likely more effective to do this outside of Russia.

And also, targeting and blaming Russians as a whole is exactly not what we need. The difference is a war against Russia vs a war against Putin and the high-level officials. Ordinary Russians didn’t cause this and are victims similar to the Ukrainians. Even if they don’t have it as bad, they’re suffering greatly.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#305

Post by lowkey »

mantas wrote: post #292
lowkey wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at what cost? I am pretty sure that everyday Russians do know that something is going on but I have trouble justifying broad sanctions against the poor and middle-class citizens of Russia, Iran or Venezuela - especially since many of them oppose their authoritarian leaders. After all their real crime is simply losing the birth lottery by being born in an authoritarian regime.

According to polls, even run by West outlets, Russians do support Putin in big numbers.

If you don’t trust the official election polls in Russia, why would you trust their opinion polls to be honest. If I were Putin, I would certainly be tempted to manipulate opinion polls to make it look like I am more popular than I really am.

As for western media, while no doubt less manipulated than Russian media, I don’t think it is safe to assume that western media is above manipulating public opinion to suit their agenda.

For example, I find it curious how little coverage the Ukraine-Russian conflict has received by western media until last week when this conflict has been a hot war since 2014.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#306

Post by bluejekyll »

lowkey wrote: post #160
bluejekyll wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is the exactly why lies and dis/misinformation are so dangerous to society. It makes every source questionable, even one’s like the economist that have tended to give fairly accurate balanced news. The first amendment is a double edged sword, but all false statements need to be challenged so that a free and Democratic society can function properly. The problem is that lies are cheap to produce, and the truth…

To be fair, if the best endorsement you can provide for the Economist is that they tend to be fairly accurate, then it doubles my resolve to be skeptical and vigilant of any claims made by media. This article sounds reasonable, even logical - and it may be, but I was manipulated by so much propaganda in the past weeks about the Ukraine situation that I no longer trust any source without verification from multiple sou…

I used some weaselly words there, mostly because I agree with your broader point that it’s important to question sources, question the information. There is media that tends to do a decent job on fact checking sources, etc.

At the end of the day, all I can do is go off the track record of those sources, and that’s why for pretty much any media source the best we can say is tend and fairly accurate because even if they are telling the truth most of the time, there is a question on if it contains all the context and nuance.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#307

Post by roveo »

samstave wrote: post #258
jmyeet wrote: post #122

Russia is seizing foreign currency reserves (effectively, by forcing conversion to the ruble) held by average Russian citizens. These sanctions are going to be a bad time for them. There are no military options so what else can you do? Still, we shouldn't forget that sanctions are a form of collective punishment that disproportionately affect average citizens. My faint glimmer of hope here is that the West finally ta…

May someone ELI5 what a 'Reserve' is exactly, and how it relates to common folk?

It's a huge pile of money and other stuff (like gold) that the central bank can sell if the want to support the Ruble. Basically they sell dollars and buy rubles on the open market to keep the price from falling.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#308

Post by jquery »

baskethead wrote: post #272
therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

I think only lesser people would think all Russians support Putin. Every Russian I know in Silicon Valley that are sickened by Putin. Eric Stalwall, the House Representative in East Bay (of the SF Bay Area) proposed to kick all Russian students out of the US. That sickened me and I won't forget this going forward (he ran for Democratic nominee for President in 2020). How can you blame citizens of the country for the…

I know lots of Russians that support Putin, unfortunately. I wish it were as simple as Putin was acting alone but he is a popular Russian figure.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#309

Post by lmilcin »

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

I would like to discern between personal and collective responsibility.

Yes, it is disheartening that so many people will personally pay for this regardless of the fact that they might even be vocally opposing this and other actions.

No, I don't think Russian people are absolved as a nation. I believe that nations are collectively responsible for their actions. Explanations that "I have only followed orders" have long been proven to be false defence.

Every person that continues to work, pay their taxes, follow their roles, close their eyes and ears to the atrocities without opposing the tyrant is cooperating and enabling him to do what he wants.

In the end you must recognise that Putin is only a human being and he is personally unable to do anything substantial. It is only other people that are enabling him that make this tragedy possible.

Some nations decide to pay the blood price and revolt, and some decided to not do that. Ukrainians bled for their right to be a democratic country. So many other nations paid so heavy price because they did not want go with what was easy and comfortable but rather decided to do what is right.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#310

Post by drakonka »

therusskiy wrote: post #256
drakonka wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize in advance for some emotion that'll come out in the rest of this comment, but I feel the need to say it. I wish Russian people would then stop telling me all about how most Russians are against Putin and hate him, and then act completely helpless at the thought of doing anything about it. They are just empty words, then, because they're followed by plenty of excuses for inaction. My grandfather is spendin…

it may be selfish, but I don't want to sit in prison and be beaten by police. If you are against Putin, why haven't you supported Russians in 2019 when they took to streets against him? Came to our country with Molotovs? Or was it too far away from you? Everybody was just "concerned" by it and now you and me are paying the pric, because since then it's even harder for us to organize and do anything about this crazy s…

That's an interesting sentiment, to ask people who aren't Russian and do not live in Russia to come protest on your behalf to overthrow your dictatorship. Do you think foreigners coming into Russia to protest (or violently riot, as you seem to be suggesting) would do the trick? That's a legitimate question - would Russians take kindly do that kind of initiative? Many Russian people, even the ones claiming that most of them hate Putin so much, seem to be packing up and leaving - are they genuinely hoping Ukrainians and other foreign civilians will come do this for them?

Sorry you had to leave your new apartment and have to figure out how to open a new bank account for your US salary. And I hope both of us get to see our families again.

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