Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#251

Post by yetihehe » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #183

Yajirobe wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans about US wars: 'we cannot do anything about our government - they engage in wars and we couldn't stop them if we tried' Americans about Russian wars: 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'

When was the last time the US invaded, with an intent to never, ever leave? When was the last time the US invaded, and slaughtered civilians, on purpose, just to spread terror. Not by accident, or a rogue element, but purposefully. When was the last time the US jailed, not by a mistake in justice but on purpose, all who dared speak out about her actions? And killed them when possible? Many reading the above will say…

> When was the last time the US invaded, with an intent to never, ever leave? When was the last time the US invaded, and slaughtered civilians, on purpose, just to spread terror.

I'm against war in Ukraine and against Russian dictators, but Putin doesn't want to never leave, he wants to install pro-russian government, like USA does in attacked countries. But yes, we didn't hear about slaughtering civilians in our west-centric media, only from those russian propagandists like Assange and Snowden.

> When was the last time the US jailed, not by a mistake in justice but on purpose, all who dared speak out about her actions? And killed them when possible?

Like with Snowden, Assange and journalists involved in panama papers or Epstein case (who hanged himself in constantly observed cell)?

What is different from my perspective about Russia: USA is still one of the best economies in the world, still have democratic rulers where you can change them and wants other countries to become like it (which means better than their current state). Russia just wants other countries to work for Russian might. We had anecdote in Poland, that USSR is not that bad, because it takes coal from us for free, but in exchange we build ships for them for free. So, while many Poles would not really fight that much if USA wanted to take over the country, we would (and do alredy in Ukraine) oppose Russia with all we have.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#252

Post by s1artibartfast » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

ledauphin wrote: post #199

Yajirobe wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans about US wars: 'we cannot do anything about our government - they engage in wars and we couldn't stop them if we tried' Americans about Russian wars: 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'

this is a silly caricature. historically, a majority of Americans supported both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq when they started, and public opinion did not turn against them for several years, and even then it was not an overwhelming majority. Obama campaigned on the folly of those wars but chose to stay involved because it was believed by many that some level of success could yet be achieved for the people in th…

While Obama was talking out of one side of his mouth regarding tire Iraq, he was starting a bombing campaign in Syria and Libya with the other

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#253

Post by akrymski » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #197

lolinder wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, it doesn't look at all like we can practically expect a popular revolt. For me there are two outcomes to target with the sanctions: * Make life unpleasant enough for the oligarchs that they replace Putin with someone less intent on ruining the nice thing they had going. * Handicap Russia's ability to wage war. This includes eliminating their ability to buy supplies and destroying their morale. It's the…

It would be great if Oligarchs around the world were uncomfortable. This should be and opportunity to catalogue just exactly who the oligarchs are and what are their assets and how are they affected.

Oligarchs don't run the country. They have zero control. It's like saying let's sanction Elon Musk for Iraq. The country is run by the military. Protesters are jailed for 3-5 years.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#254

Post by hutzlibu » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #222

Mikeb85 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Nazis were stopped from outside Yes, after killing 30 million+ people. It would have been much easier if Germans didn't enable them or someone took out Hitler in 1938. And we punished Germany for generations because of it. The US still has military bases there to this day.

Germany has been fully sovereign since 1991; they can ask the US troops to leave whenever they want to. The existence of US basis there now can hardly be considered “punishment”.

Ah well, we do have quite some Reichsbürger (think QAnon people) who indeed say, germany is still occupied.

But after Trump made the actual decision to pull out all US troops, there was rather lots of whining, because the military bases are important for the local economies ..

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#255

Post by lowkey » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

mbreese wrote: post #132

Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

It’s not only about revolting, but without a free press, economic sanctions are one way to get people to know that something is going on. Russian citizens may not even know what is happening, but when they suddenly can’t buy thing, when Apple Pay stops working, when costs skyrocket… that gets people to pay attention.

But at what cost? I am pretty sure that everyday Russians do know that something is going on but I have trouble justifying broad sanctions against the poor and middle-class citizens of Russia, Iran or Venezuela - especially since many of them oppose their authoritarian leaders. After all their real crime is simply losing the birth lottery by being born in an authoritarian regime.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#256

Post by therusskiy » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

drakonka wrote: post #148

therusskiy wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin was shaken up by Euromaidan and been preparing so it doesn't happen to him ever since. Ukraine 2014 != Russia 2022. Back then Ukraine even had free speech.

I apologize in advance for some emotion that'll come out in the rest of this comment, but I feel the need to say it. I wish Russian people would then stop telling me all about how most Russians are against Putin and hate him, and then act completely helpless at the thought of doing anything about it. They are just empty words, then, because they're followed by plenty of excuses for inaction. My grandfather is spendin…

it may be selfish, but I don't want to sit in prison and be beaten by police. If you are against Putin, why haven't you supported Russians in 2019 when they took to streets against him? Came to our country with Molotovs? Or was it too far away from you? Everybody was just "concerned" by it and now you and me are paying the pric, because since then it's even harder for us to organize and do anything about this crazy shithead.

> Catching trains to Finland

When rumors about borders closing started to appear me and my GF had to grab clothes and medicine, enough to fit into baggage, book ANYTHING that flies from Russia within the next day. I had to leave all my savings that I've been saving up for years (banks stopped giving money), I had to leave a newly bought apartment, I had to leave my parents and grandparents that I may never see again.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#257

Post by vkou » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

ushakov wrote: post #233

mbreese wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only about revolting, but without a free press, economic sanctions are one way to get people to know that something is going on. Russian citizens may not even know what is happening, but when they suddenly can’t buy thing, when Apple Pay stops working, when costs skyrocket… that gets people to pay attention.

everyone in Russia knows what's going on but when Apple Pay stops working, when costs skyrocket the blame will be on companies and on the west take it from ex-Russian

Half of them will blame the west, because, as in every country, roughly half the population believes whatever stupid authoritarian bullshit they are fed. Not much different from the West, just travel to a sundown town and ask who won the last election, or whether it's a good idea to get the 'rona vaccine.

The other half knows better, but also knows better than to talk about what they know publicly. Which is how Russia differs from the West.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#258

Post by samstave » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #122

Russia is seizing foreign currency reserves (effectively, by forcing conversion to the ruble) held by average Russian citizens. These sanctions are going to be a bad time for them. There are no military options so what else can you do? Still, we shouldn't forget that sanctions are a form of collective punishment that disproportionately affect average citizens. My faint glimmer of hope here is that the West finally ta…

May someone ELI5 what a 'Reserve' is exactly, and how it relates to common folk?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#259

Post by mumblemumble » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

ledauphin wrote: post #199

Yajirobe wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans about US wars: 'we cannot do anything about our government - they engage in wars and we couldn't stop them if we tried' Americans about Russian wars: 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'

this is a silly caricature. historically, a majority of Americans supported both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq when they started, and public opinion did not turn against them for several years, and even then it was not an overwhelming majority. Obama campaigned on the folly of those wars but chose to stay involved because it was believed by many that some level of success could yet be achieved for the people in th…

> Americans are in fact at this very moment preventing the US from engaging in this war in Ukraine.

The US getting more directly involved in Ukraine was never a likely outcome, for reasons that have nothing to do with American public opinion. Throughout the Cold War, both the USA and the USSR made a policy of never directly engaging in conflict on the same soil, because the risk of it escalating into a nuclear war was just too great. Instead, they would fight proxy wars where at most one country was a direct combatant, and the other country merely provided material support to an ally.

We can expect the war in Ukraine to continue following the same playbook, and for the same reason. And other NATO countries will also avoid sending their own troops into Ukraine for fear of creating a slippery slope that pulls NATO's nuclear powers into the war.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#260

Post by hutzlibu » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #248

lolinder wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does persecuting Russians who flee Putin's regime help end the war sooner?

To make it fair why not have them renounce citizenship and publicly disavow Putin or something? State their full name, former address, etc. Just to make sure they don’t support Putin and never have.

I think many would, if they can find a state who gives them papers instead. Being stateless is no fun.