Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 933 posts

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#201

Post by lolinder »

akomtu wrote: post #168
Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

It didn't work with North Korea, it won't work with Russia. Populace there is unarmed, disorganised and divided, while the Putin's gang is very organised and not shy of using violence against dissenters. When NATO says "we're trying to push russian joes to fix their government", they really mean "we're afraid to confront your bully, he's just too strong and cruel for us."

In case you haven't noticed, North Korea hasn't exactly invaded South Korea recently. The sanctions haven't created a revolt, but they've almost certainly eliminated the North's ability to wage an offensive war.

Doing the same to Russia should be our target. If we cannot end the totalitarian regime without starting World War III, we can still neutralize it as a threat to the rest of the world.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#202

Post by qiskit »

jstx1 wrote: post #32
daenz wrote: post #2

This may very well be true, but I'm having trouble believing anything, from anyone, about the conflict. There is so much propaganda around the subject, that unless you are personally connected to an official source, I believe you can't know with any reasonable certainty. The primary source for this story appears to be public Google Trends data.

You should still believe the reporting of actual events done by the major international news orgs. You don't need to go into opinion pieces or into hypothesizing.

> You should still believe the reporting of actual events done by the major international news orgs.

Would you say we should believe major russian news orgs? Healthy skepticism is required, especially during times of war. There is a reason why each side banned the other's media, social media, etc. So that they can spread propaganda without pushback. The first casualty in war is the truth.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#203

Post by samstave »

b112 wrote: post #183
Yajirobe wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans about US wars: 'we cannot do anything about our government - they engage in wars and we couldn't stop them if we tried' Americans about Russian wars: 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'

When was the last time the US invaded, with an intent to never, ever leave? When was the last time the US invaded, and slaughtered civilians, on purpose, just to spread terror. Not by accident, or a rogue element, but purposefully. When was the last time the US jailed, not by a mistake in justice but on purpose, all who dared speak out about her actions? And killed them when possible? Many reading the above will say…

No post body was provided.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#204

Post by School-Cotton »

lenkite wrote: post #130
Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

Sanctions against the US for the Iraq war would have been totally legitimate. What exactly is your point?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#205

Post by formvoltron »

lenkite wrote: post #130
Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

We had big protests. They were not big enough unfortunately.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#206

Post by pelasaco »

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

go back home and fight for freedom. You are the only one that can stop Putin.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#207

Post by riedel »

lolinder wrote: post #61
bsedlm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. maybe these people have grown in better functioning democracies (unlike Russia or my own country) so they act as if the people were well represented by their governments; unlike reality for most countries with a serious corruption problem.

I'm all for annihilating Russia's economy (even if it means civilians are caught in the crossfire) but the treatment GP received after leaving is extremely disheartening. The goal should be to welcome fleeing Russians with open arms and make it as easy as possible for them to permanently put down roots.

I think discriminating peoplejust due to their nationality has to stop. I am seeing this even at my university even if official sanctions are more targeted. One big problem is the "deemed export" rules that the US imposes effectively on the whole world ( e.g. if we do research for a US listed company)

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#208

Post by yetihehe »

akomtu wrote: post #168
Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

It didn't work with North Korea, it won't work with Russia. Populace there is unarmed, disorganised and divided, while the Putin's gang is very organised and not shy of using violence against dissenters. When NATO says "we're trying to push russian joes to fix their government", they really mean "we're afraid to confront your bully, he's just too strong and cruel for us."

> Populace there is unarmed

So, we should give them weapons?

> disorganised and divided

You think that overthrowing their government would work? Maybe with some "special military operation" perhaps?

> "we're afraid to confront your bully, he's just too strong and cruel for us."

Or maybe - we have a rule where we don't try to assasinate leaders unless strictly necessary. And before you say about Iraq and nin Laden - that was USA operation, not NATO. But I still think that would be best solution which minimises losses in people. But try to do this, even bin Laden was not found in one week, it would be much harder to find Putin in some vault. Plus, after he is killed, there will be some other former KGB agent to replace him.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#209

Post by therusskiy »

nuccy wrote: post #146
therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

[disclaimer: Ukrainian here] > Older generation (who are pro-Russian) suggested being careful around young people as they may be hostile to Russians, even those who are running away from Putin Of course, instead of even attempting to change your country, where there is no war on its territory, you flee. Why should they be kind to you? > The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countrie…

it doesn't sound like you enjoy fighting Russian military, why should I? As for silence, I've been helping Russian opposition financially for years (even when it became illegal, through different channels), talking to relatives and friends to make sure they know what's going on. At some point risks become too great. Imagine Maidan, but if Yanukovich won and had 8 years to surround himself with 100 times more military and propaganda. Call me a coward for wanting to have a normal life.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#210

Post by jacquesm »

daenz wrote: post #164
jacquesm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, if the news wasn't good or the situation needed a larger boot to step on people then martial law was taken out of the cupboard to control the population. With 8000+ Russian protestors arrested, a ban on factual news, lots of other restrictions put in place and so on talk of martial law is not all that strange. Maybe for you it is strange, but for me it is a fairly logical next step in a series of domest…

That makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is why it is presented in such a duplicitous way. It's one thing to say "When a country has this kind of internal turmoil, martial law is something that we need to watch out for." It's another thing to say "Unnamed official sees 'signs' on social media about martial law." One way is transparent, re-enforces critical thinking, while the other way is "believe this because w…

I see the same signs, I am thinking in the exact same direction as that unnamed official. Mostly because I lived under official 'martial law' for a while to understand what it means and when dictatorial governments reach for it: when they can no longer control the narrative. As soon as that becomes the danger martial law is on the menu, because it allows the government to crack down on the second order effects (since they can't do anything about the root cause, bad news is bad news).

The main thing that right now seems to keep martial law at bay in Russia is because, besides being a tacit admission that not all is well and that there is an internal problem in Russia that that would require Putin to give the military more power, something that he is absolutely loathe to do because that very same power could be used against him. But if not for that I am pretty sure we'd already be there.

Post reply on HN