Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#1

Post by actuator » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

Hi, not sure whether this is a good topic to discuss here or not but I keep seeing issues with Wikipedia which are getting worse with time, with regards to neutrality and editorialisation.

While Wikipedia's model seems far better than an individual publishing house's encyclopedia one where they can draw editors from millions of people throughout the world and are not bound by ads or sales to keep them afloat, in terms of editing it hasn't been working well.

Not every editor has equal power on Wikipedia. The more you have stayed on the site and the more time you spend on the site, you tend to have more say on what gets inside the articles. I have seen talk pages where the same three editors who seem to be part of the same echo chamber discussing issues preventing any alternative opinion or tone to come in the article. A behaviour very similar to Reddit where some subreddit moderators can sustain echo chambers by moderating anything not falling in line. In Wikipedia's case this often even leads to some sources getting picked over the other specially when it comes to media or books.

Is it possible to break the grasp of "editors" or is every user curated platform doomed to reach this state?

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#2

Post by slater » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:26 PM UTC

What are the examples of "Wikipedia [...] getting worse with time, with regards to neutrality and editorialisation"?

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#3

Post by stretchpants » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:43 PM UTC

Let 1,000,000 little Wikipedias sprout. Eventually the garbage model of the original will be forgotten.

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#4

Post by evancoop » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:43 PM UTC

I might reframe the discussion slightly. Wikipedia is growing with respect to time (that would seem factually-verifiable if the number of topics with a Wiki page is larger in each successive year).

Increasing the number of pages should increase the number of pages that are controversial, problematic, or "echo-chambers" in absolute terms.

Are they increasing as a proportion? Is this diminishing the utility of the site in aggregate?

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#5

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:46 PM UTC

You think that's bad? All the actual contributors of content are chased off by those who tweak the site. What can I say, it's going to only get worse.

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#6

Post by Afton » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

stretchpants wrote: post #3

Let 1,000,000 little Wikipedias sprout. Eventually the garbage model of the original will be forgotten.

Can you provide some substantial ideas about what you would like to see different and what makes the current model "garbage"? Otherwise it's not clear what you're advocating for.

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#7

Post by thrower123 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

Ban the deletionists

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#8

Post by edent » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

There are a few problems that need to be dealt with.

First is that "Reality has a well-known liberal bias". Which means lots of people want a "neutral point of view" which reflects their own opinion.

Secondly, there are lots of trolls and bad-faith actors. So a bureaucracy needs to be built up to deal with it in a structured and consistent (not necessarily fair) way.

Thirdly, what can incentivise people? Most editors aren't paid. Introducing money just leads to corruption. So you end up with fake Internet points which can be gamed.

Penultimately, can you appeal? I've had changes reverted, appealed, and reinstated. You can go all the way up the bureaucracy if you want to break out of the echo chamber.

Finally, fork it. If you think you have a better way of doing things - and can't make internal changes - go run your own Wiki and see how long your system lasts without falling to bias.

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#9

Post by JavaBatman » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:52 PM UTC

edent wrote: post #8

There are a few problems that need to be dealt with. First is that "Reality has a well-known liberal bias". Which means lots of people want a "neutral point of view" which reflects their own opinion. Secondly, there are lots of trolls and bad-faith actors. So a bureaucracy needs to be built up to deal with it in a structured and consistent (not necessarily fair) way. Thirdly, what can incentivise people? Most editors…

> First is that "Reality has a well-known liberal bias".

Uh...what? Where is the proof of this?

Re: Ask HN: How can we fix Wikipedia?

#10

Post by legitster » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

I'm not sure if I share the same assessment. I am amazed at how robust your typical Wikipedia page is despite the chaos that goes into writing it. Given that it's not possible to make a version of reality that everyone is happy with, I think Wikipedia comes pretty dang close.