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Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

novayagazeta.ru

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Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#101

Post by Klaster_1 »

bitwise101 wrote: post #36

Go visit the homepage of this newspaper. It's crazy, there's no clear reference to war or attacks. This article on Ikea is just an attempt to tell the desperation without breaking the censorship law.

As one of Novaya backers, I voted for it to continue operations, even under the censorship. The Novaya team and their readers are bright people who can write and read between the lines, a working independent media of any form, not blocked by roskomnadzor, is more valuable than none. The alternative was to shut down and wait until the situation resolves. I admire their resolve.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#102

Post by neilwilson »

Thorrez wrote: post #58
mrtksn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be but they need to be primed for it already. How did the US not selling drones to Turkey made Turkey a drone superpower? Well, Turkey already had a large engineering talent pool and related industries, therefore US not selling drones to Turkey was an opportunity. Does Russia already have a talent base or flourishing industries for all the stuff they are being denied? I find it unlikely, it's a common proble…

>What is the last innovation, art or product that came out of Russia and change the world? Maybe Telegram? It has 500 million monthly active users.

nginx was pretty Russian IIRC

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#103

Post by sakopov »

Not sure yet if this is shaping up to be another round of wild 90s or Stalinist times in Russia. It's kind of looking like a bizarre mix of both with political incarcerations back in play and government shutting down press. To piss away 2 decades of progress in 1 week is pretty unbelievable. Hard to believe that Putin did not see this coming...

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#104

Post by _ph_ »

delegate wrote: post #86

Photos of queues in shops and empty shelves is the only resistance left. Any non-official information about the war is punishable with 15 years in prison camps. What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc. This will hit marriages and…

Yes, I do feel sad for the Russian population. From the start of the invasion, I knew how much collateral damage Russia would take and that the damage done would last for decades. But then, the country of Russia is invading and destroying Ukraine right now. Just because no one bombs Russia, you cannot assume there are not damages to the country. The obvious way out would be massive public resistance to end this quickly.

Also, this should be a warning to any people who currently feel the temptation to elect a government which is basically fighting democracy. The effect in Russia is obvious, but it isn't as if there aren't such tendencies in other countries. Just watch which political parties try to discredit free media and you have a good first indicator.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#105

Post by jacquesm »

xvilka wrote: post #85

Well, IKEA leaving is not a big issue - making furniture is easy and doesn't require high-tech. Thus, in one year or two nobody will even remember them. The industries that require technology, like electronics, biotechnology, healthcare - those will be permanently crippled, maybe completely eliminated.

You'd be surprised. Having 'Western' furniture, clothing and vehicles in the Eastern European countries was a requirement to be seen as successful in life. Of course this is nonsense but a lot of people bought into it and it will take a long time to let go of that. But: whatever Ikea sold they sold and it will likely continue to work for a long time. Vehicles are going to be breaking down without a steady source of spares you'll see cannibalization of the worst of the rolling ones before the year is out.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#106

Post by ZeroGravitas »

bagels wrote: post #82
jacquesm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the line to cross would be that Russia gives up their nuclear arms. They have shown that they are willing to use these for extortion rather than as a last means of defense, which I think should be enough to cause them to have to give these up.

Why would they ever give them up? Unless they get so thoroughly routed in a war that they have no choice, it just won't happen because it is the end of sovereignty.

I feel like Russia breaking up into smaller states and then each state joining the eu on a long timescale once they meet various civic legal and economic targets is the kind of boring solution that will be fought for years and then happen once all other options have been exhausted. This war is really about Ukraine (even the Russian speaking parts, the anti-Nato, Anti-EU people in Ukraine) thinking they'd rather be part of the EU once they get their civic society sorted than immediately be a corrupt part of Russia.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#107

Post by konart »

_0w8t wrote: post #34
kyriakos wrote: post #5

They say every crisis is an opportunity. This could be a great opportunity for Russian owned brands to establish themselves and thrive later when the crisis is hopefully resolved.

I talked with friends in Moscow at the beginning of 2020. They said there were simply no good alternatives to IKEA. There were reasonable furniture from Belarus if one looked for things made from whole wood, but then one still may need to hire somebody to fix/adjust it due to quality control issues. Plus there were small Russian companies, but their stuff while good was expensive. Things that were produced by bigger…

To be honest this sounds like a fairytale to me. IKEA has\had good things like lamps and tabletops. But the furniture has terrible quality. I'm still kind of angry at myself for buying their Stockholm cabinet. You _have_ to fix it agains the wall to stop the wiggling (that's what the manual AND their support tells me).

Unfortunately we really don't have anything that is mass-production and of good quality at the same time, but IKEA is hardly a ray of light in my opinion.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#108

Post by sdb0 »

bergie wrote: post #98
londons_explore wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much... Russian media is getting blocked in some places in the west too. RT was blocked from YouTube and TV in the UK for example.

Which totally makes sense. Russia is a dictatorship waging a war of aggression a democratic neighbour. Why should we give their state propaganda outlets any amplification?

Because you believe in freedom of speech?

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#109

Post by jacquesm »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #106
bagels wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they ever give them up? Unless they get so thoroughly routed in a war that they have no choice, it just won't happen because it is the end of sovereignty.

I feel like Russia breaking up into smaller states and then each state joining the eu on a long timescale once they meet various civic legal and economic targets is the kind of boring solution that will be fought for years and then happen once all other options have been exhausted. This war is really about Ukraine (even the Russian speaking parts, the anti-Nato, Anti-EU people in Ukraine) thinking they'd rather be pa…

You may well be on to something here: that Russia is doing this as a warning to other states still under its control that if they flirt with the EU they will get turned into rubble. That would at least make some sense.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#110

Post by ZeroGravitas »

erichocean wrote: post #96
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel this is the real selling point of democracy and free media, its hard for a foreign nation to buy an entire electorate. Several nations seem to be setting themselves up for irrelevence by undermining democracy, usually at the behest of powerful groups within the country, but to do so they basically need to pay a bunch of people to tell lies. They've then created a network that external corporations and governme…

> its hard for a foreign nation to buy an entire electorate You sure? According to the US government, a few hundred thousand dollars on Facebook ads was enough to buy a US President (c.f Trump, Donald J).

The US was one of the countries I was talking about that intentionally undermined their own democracy.

Did Trump win the popular vote? Would he have had any chance in a proportional voting system? Or if you had to vote? (He himself says no Republican could be elected if people could easily vote). Who made that possible and why?

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