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Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

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Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#131

Post by foogazi »

wahern wrote: post #86
thraneh wrote: post #4

A lot of current news feels very biased, even from sources I previously found unbiased. Fortunately I was recently shared a link to John Mearsheimers 2015 YT video where he very clearly explains what has led to the current situation. In that light I now feel it's a lot easier to filter the news.

> A lot of current news feels very biased, even from sources I previously found unbiased. I wholeheartedly agree. I feel like I could write an entire book of what it reveals about the state of Western culture. But when something is so obnoxious I try to remind myself to be especially careful about how I react. Because one of the other obnoxious things about contemporary Western culture is how partisan political senti…

> One of the flaws in his PoV is that none of it actually justifies Russia's behavior.

He seems unable to assign blame to Russia/Putin

> It makes most sense only if you conceive of Russia as a scared child,

It comes over as appeasement- with mentions of “poking in the eye” - as if it were a bear

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#132

Post by rakejake »

projektfu wrote: post #59
empressplay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Canadian. As a Canadian I am fully aware that my country exists strictly at the whim of the US. If we were to decide to form a military alliance with Russia, hosting Russian troops on our soil, Canada would be invaded by the US in a New York minute. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. It sucks of course but it is what it is. That is all he is saying.

It's different in many degrees. Canada has been warmer and colder to the US at various times but since NAFTA has been very friendly. If a less-US-friendly politics started winning out, Canada could back away from the US orbit in a lot of ways and the US probably would not push for regime change. A future of a pro-Putin Canada is just absurd in its own right. Why not North Korea or Iran? It only really makes sense to…

I think you countered your own counter argument there. Embedded in your argument is this tidbit: "A future where Canada is pro-Russia is unthinkable, not ever going to happen". Canada-US relations may freeze and thaw but even at the deepest freeze, you know Canada is never going break with the US and associate with Russia. What the poster is saying is "IF Canada were to make significant overtures to Russia, US would be apoplectic with rage", which is most definitely correct.

Note: I have no bone in this fight, just trying to clarify what I think is a decent argument.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#133

Post by mcphage »

erichocean wrote: post #43
majormajor wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Blame"/"responsibility"/"at fault" all seem like questions with a certain natural moral slant to them. He's putting moral fault onto the US for failing to properly respect the likely immoral acts of Putin? That's ludicrous.

"Many Ukrainians may die in order that NATO expands, but that's a cost we, the United States of America, are prepared to pay." /sarc

I wonder if Ukraine should possibly get any say in the matter.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#134

Post by dang »

avasylev wrote: post #129
warner_of_doom wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

Would you please omit swipes like "Not sure why I even bother replying" and "What are you talking about?" from your posts to HN? You've been breaking the site guidelines frequently in your recent comments. I realize emotions are naturally very intense for everyone right now, but this is not ok. Indeed, it's a reason to follow the site guidelines more carefully.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#135

Post by 331c8c71 »

murat124 wrote: post #65

Ukraine crisis has a long history, we're only witnessing and recalling the last 40 years or so. Putin views Ukraine as a country which should not exist at all. This is a position that Stalin took almost a century ago before causing 5 millions Ukrainians to die from starvation. We have to understand this: West can not make Russia to change this view. With our without the support of West, whether Ukrainians want to joi…

> This is a position that Stalin took almost a century ago before causing 5 millions Ukrainians to die from starvation.

The deliberate ethnic genocide is not universally accepted. The famine affected large areas of the USSR besides Ukraine.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#136

Post by kashunstva »

warner_of_doom wrote: post #38

Seeing this play out in the media reminds me of the Iraq War hysteria in 2003. Completely one-sided coverage, classic war-time propaganda (ghost of kiev), banning Russian arts and paralympians, etc. I've lost all faith in the media. Period. You may think that there is an absolute answer to this situation, but there isn't. I recommend that you study commentators and scholars such as: John Mearsheimer, Zbigniew Brezins…

> I am convinced that my country started this entire episode

Unequivocally the government of the Russian Federation is the aggressor here. That the United States has been inconsistent with respect to Ukraine doesn't diminish the fact that the military of the Russian Federation is actively shelling hospitals, schools, residential dwellings and precipitating a humanitarian crisis in Europe.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#137

Post by timeon »

As someone from Central and Eastern Europe - blaming U.S. or 'west' is just cope mechanism for some people in the west. "If we did this or that differently Russia would not attack". Well that may be just wishful thinking. But they haven`t realized that we are sovereign countries and it is not Russian business where we want to belong. Just ours.

These so called "realists" haven`t considered one simple fact. Ukraine was attacked. Not Latvia nor Lithuania nor Estonia. What is the difference? NATO.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#138

Post by mcphage »

331c8c71 wrote: post #112
dragonwriter wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, taking Ukraine from Russia in this non-neutral manner Taking Ukraine from Russia? What have Russia the right to take Ukraine from (checks) Ukraine?

What gives US the right to take Ukraine from Ukraine? Thats where the story started

> Thats where the story started

Did I miss the bit where the US invaded Ukraine in effort to take it over?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#139

Post by eric_b »

majormajor wrote: post #9

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

It's not that he's worried about being invaded tomorrow, it's that he doesn't want to let the slippery slope get started.

I don't know how old you are, but when I was young and idealistic I felt the same way you seem to. Now I see a world of grey and I can, at least a little bit, empathize with (though not condone) the Russian position here. From their perspective the West is being intentionally belligerent, and we know it.

Despite what the media and the talking heads say, the west poking the bear is not about democracy or western values. It's about power and control. And Putin is repaying us in kind. And the Ukrainians are left to pick up the pieces.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#140

Post by warner_of_doom »

avasylev wrote: post #117
warner_of_doom wrote: post #38

Seeing this play out in the media reminds me of the Iraq War hysteria in 2003. Completely one-sided coverage, classic war-time propaganda (ghost of kiev), banning Russian arts and paralympians, etc. I've lost all faith in the media. Period. You may think that there is an absolute answer to this situation, but there isn't. I recommend that you study commentators and scholars such as: John Mearsheimer, Zbigniew Brezins…

> Completely one-sided coverage I'm not sure what else you expected, it's completely one-sided issue - one side started and continues the war. One side can stop this war at any time. Did you expect 50-50 coverage, with 50% repeating Putin's propaganda?

> one side started and continues the war

Not true. You have to look at the entire political situation in Ukraine, starting at least since 2003-4. And, especially 2014 and the US-backed putsch that took place that year.

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