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Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

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Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#61

Post by newsbinator »

nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

I didn't use death rate for supporting closing and I won't use death rate for supporting opening.

Covid's main threats for most people are:

* Filling up hospitals to the point they stop functioning (that's been true here in Canada).

* Putting 10% ~ 20% of workers everywhere, including hospitals, out of commission for weeks at a time while they're acutely sick with Covid or infectious to others.

* Disabling some large % of people temporarily or permanently due to lingering symptoms of the virus.

The death rate for covid is significant but not substantial enough in itself to cause the world to lock down. The points above though, are.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#62

Post by endisneigh »

nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

RTO should’ve begun the minute it was shown that vaccines stop deaths.

given that you have to be vaccines to rto at Apple it didn’t really make sense to wait this long anyway

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#63

Post by quickthrowman »

jb1991 wrote: post #44
gtirloni wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years That's surprising. Do you have a source?

That stat has been widely reported, in the U.S. at least. There are more deaths from Covid occurring currently in the U.S. on an average daily basis that at any prior time in the pandemic. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/24/health/covid-deaths-now-y... NY Times, Washington Post, and other media have similar stories.

From Covid != With Covid

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#64

Post by nradov »

jb1991 wrote: post #44
gtirloni wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years That's surprising. Do you have a source?

That stat has been widely reported, in the U.S. at least. There are more deaths from Covid occurring currently in the U.S. on an average daily basis that at any prior time in the pandemic. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/24/health/covid-deaths-now-y... NY Times, Washington Post, and other media have similar stories.

That is misinformation. The current US daily death rate is significantly lower than the January 2021 peak.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-...

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#65

Post by kemayo »

basisword wrote: post #22
nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

>> More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. You can’t just exclude the data that disproves your point. The peaks were the original variant, Alpha(?), Delta and now Omicron. Deaths in this wave are extremely lower than in any other wave due to severity, immunity and vaccinations. Hospital stays are reduced and shorter. The original point of av…

I think you're both right, but sort-of arguing different issues. Here's two points:

* Covid deaths per-day are at-or-near their highest ever levels

* the current wave is less dangerous

These sound contradictory, but aren't: deaths are high, death rates aren't -- if you catch Covid you're more likely to survive than ever before, but you're also more likely to catch Covid. This is because we're (currently) in a wave of a high-infection low-mortality variant.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#66

Post by guelo »

nradov wrote: post #49
nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

Why not now? We have to return to normalcy eventually so what do we gain by waiting? Everyone is going to be exposed to the virus occasionally so whether that happens in an office or somewhere else hardly matters.

I refuse to get infected no matter how much political people seem to want me to

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#67

Post by lazide »

WithinReason wrote: post #36
nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

> More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. There is a huge difference between "dying with COVID" and "dying from COVID".

Covid sucks. My toddler (for various shitty reasons I was unable to prevent) got it three times in the last 12 months.

Even vaccinated (and never testing positive), the immune response I got from taking care of a highly infectious toddler screaming in my face was terrible and really brutal. I’m not old, fully functional immune system, etc. and it had me out for weeks, brain fog, exhaustion, off and on high fever, you name it. I suspect I still am suffering side effects from the last infection in Jan.

If I hadn’t been fully vaccinated just before the first time he got it, I’d probably be dead.

Pretending that someone who was not as strong or healthy, gets it, then dies didn’t ‘die from Covid’ is probably disingenuous at least 90% of the time.

We all die eventually, it’s the norm for whatever obvious change occurred to be blamed for it, not ‘inevitable entropic reality’ or whatever.

At the end of the day, someone has to made a judgement call about the appropriate factor in a complex system.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#68

Post by throwaway1777 »

nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

Politics plain and simple. COVID protocols are very unpopular at this point and not every effective. Florida and Texas are having big inflows, california and New York huge outflows. Whatever your viewpoint this is the fact politicians see. And yes taxes and cost of living are a huge driving force not only COVID, but as long as remote work goes on people will keep moving to low cost of living and low tax states.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#69

Post by thisiscorrect »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #20

Love that all the companies (see also Google, Twitter) are utilizing the WW3-panic to sweep these announcements under the rug. How thoughtful! And props to Apple for adding that Friday PR synergy to the mix! Edit: my best attempt at a good faith argument here is this: it was a move that was supposed to be in sync with Biden's SOFU comments on returning to the office, but other breaking news affected the plan.

It's interesting to consider the group psychology aspect. During the 2020 summer protests, many also said that the huge crowds were not spreading covid. Maybe this is similar. When there is a larger issue people are focusing on, concerns about covid get pushed to the backburner. The real test will come when the Ukraine-Russia war subsides.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#70

Post by endisneigh »

newsbinator wrote: post #61
nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

I didn't use death rate for supporting closing and I won't use death rate for supporting opening. Covid's main threats for most people are: * Filling up hospitals to the point they stop functioning (that's been true here in Canada). * Putting 10% ~ 20% of workers everywhere, including hospitals, out of commission for weeks at a time while they're acutely sick with Covid or infectious to others. * Disabling some large…

> The death rate for covid is significant but not substantial enough in itself to cause the world to lock down. The points above though, are.

For USA the death rate is still higher than times when we were not RTO.

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