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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#821

Post by Demiurge »

sdfgdfghj wrote: post #812
asdswe wrote: post #801

I highly recommend this lecture by Finnish army intelligence expert to those looking to understand the deeper roots behind Russia's actions. Lecture in Finnish, but it has English subtitles. Truly wakening stuff, it really helps you to understand the situation much better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw

What do you recon are the key points for people who don't have 1h to watch with subtitles. Specifically related to the nuclear power plant news from today.

The key points of this terrible demagoguery, from what I could tell:

1) Russians have been conquered a lot and are very insecure

2) They're part Mongols and inherited fear and lies as state of being

3) Russians only respect strong Tsar and let the Tsar do whatever he wants as he appears strong and manufactures the fear through the lies

4) Russians are stupid and not capable of creating anything, only destruction. They stole anything technologically worthwhile.

5) Russia is a terrible autocratic imperialist country that is completely geopolitically irrational.

Any person taking this video at face value should conclude that Russia should be suppressed and destroyed, that would be a great service to the human kind. Yes, everything makes sense now.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#822

Post by yks »

ethbr0 wrote: post #761
labster wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does slightly more access to the Mediterranean get you when no European country will buy your goods? All of those things you mentioned are worthless without buyers. Except the farm land. But it’s not 1444 — trade is vastly more profitable than agriculture nowadays.

IMHO, Putin is looking at this from a century perspective. I.e. in a hundred years, the sanctions will be gone, Europe will be trading with Russia again, and Russia will still have the land.

good luck keeping Ukraine after what is happening now past the death of Putin

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#823

Post by drran »

eru wrote: post #568
eyelidlessness wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are literally doing total war without provocation. The theoretical threat of NATO has not been a part of this conflict at all. Treating that imagined threat as if it’s equivalent to the very real war is navel gazing excuse for a mass murdering fascist.

First, yes, Putin's Russia has started a war of conquest. Second, no, it is definitely _not_ a total war. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war for background. Third, the theoretical threat of NATO is not so much to Russia: I agree that NATO is not a threat to Russia. However I do also see that NATO and EU are a threat to Putin's long term vision for a renewed Russian Empire. To be clear, I agree that this visi…

This is total war. RF targets infrastructure and kills civilians on purpose. More than 2000 civilians are killed by RF in one week on territory controlled by Ukraine. RF uses weapons of mass(1) destruction freely, to force humanitarian crisis, then ask for tactical pause, to let civilians escape, while using reinforces to fortify captured land. They are shutting at hospitals, gas pipes, power lines, humanitarian convoys, to make situation desperate for civilians, to force tactical pauses. We learned this tactic very well.

(1) Not WMD like chlorine, or nuclear, of course, nor biological weapons except coronavirus released by accident from Vector lab in Siberia on Sep 16, 2019, just conventional weapons designed to maximize damage to civilian infrastructure.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#824

Post by xdennis »

nomel wrote: post #708
lawn wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their whole invasion has screamed incompetence.

Could you give some examples of what you see as incompetent?

All the videos of abandoned tanks and vehicles, some with fuel.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#825

Post by xdennis »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #178
01100011 wrote: post #26

God damn, is the Russian army really this stupid? Is this an act of desperation, ignorance or spite?

My best mental model for the leadership of Russia's Ukraine invasion is an abusive parent who can't get his kid to bend to his will. Repeated failed attempts cause the parent to become more emotional, destructive, and out of control of himself, so we've gone from just an unprovoked invasion with airport attacks, attacks on radar sites, and occupation of the exclusion zone; to trying to assassinate Zelenskyy and start…

I think a more accurate modal is an incel. Russia is a corrupt country nobody wants to be with. Ukraine wants to be more western and rejected Russia's advances, so Russia lashes out at Ukraine instead of improving itself.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#826

Post by xdennis »

vernie wrote: post #237
RickJWagner wrote: post #182

"Russia calls its actions in Ukraine a 'special operation' that is not designed to occupy territory but to destroy its neighbour's military capabilities and capture what it regards as dangerous nationalists. It denies targeting civilians." How very Reuters of them. I should have expected nothing less.

Is that a problem?

The problem is treating war criminals like they deserve an equal opportunity to explain their position.

It's indisputably a war of baseless aggression. Giving their narrative of it being a special operation to de-nazify is no different than giving nazis equal opportunity to explain their position on the Holocaust: an operation of de-bolshevization (which is what they actually said at the time).

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#827

Post by xdennis »

Markoff wrote: post #663

nice thread (this account is good to follow) disproving Ukrainiang propaganda, Western media saying Russians attacked nuclear power plant and put it on fire, while Russians entered without any shooting and then were shot at by Ukrainians causing fire in administrative building, so much for relying on Western media making money on causing panic and spreading misinformation https://twitter.com/ASBMilitary/status/149953…

Ukrainians blew up their own power plant? Fuck off nazi troll.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#828

Post by type0 »

type0 wrote: post #744
oddmiral wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to an official document, such as voting by UN members, to put RF into security council of UN? I cannot find any. RF is not a founder of UN, so it puzzling for me, how they are able to sit permanently in Security Council. Is there an exception for RF in UN statute written somewhere?

> Can you point to official documents, such as voting by UN members to put RF into security council of UN? No idea, I haven't seen any. Another thing Russia inherited from USSR war nukes as well as debt.

> from USSR war nukes

edit (I misspelled): from USSR was nukes

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#829

Post by dsign »

colechristensen wrote: post #350
yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

Humanity is fine, just some parts are quite far ahead of others. We just have to get rid of autocrats and authoritarianism. There will be some slides backwards as people in difficult situations value their opinions and risk aversion more than others’ freedoms, and there are plenty of places where people are just fine with their autocrats continuing to rule. Progress, for the most part, can’t be given. It is hopeful t…

> Humanity is fine,

It is, but the reckoning for me is how a single dictator among billions could make so much harm. So it is not enough that humanity is 99.9999% fine. We need fail-safes for things going terribly wrong, and in this particular scenario, having an autonomous colony outside of Earth or underground on Earth could be one such.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#830

Post by FranOntanaya »

yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

Nuclear costs should factor in the need to run a larger military budget to make up for their vulnerability in a conflict.
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