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Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

slovio.com

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Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jazika ~ jezika ~ language (literal translation tongue), but the italic part I can't decipher.

> Slovio es idealju jazika dla dnesju ludis. I think this means "Slovio is the ideal language for/of everyday/today's people" "ludis" is 100% "people". Not sure what "dla" and "dnesju" mean. In Bulgarian, "dnes" (днес) means "today" so that's where I'm coming from.

ludis ~ ljudi in Croatian but it's so far apart that I didn't even connect it, dnes would then be ~ danas, again this is completely wrong structure and doesn't sound familiar at all so I'd say this is not a language I could pick up.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#153
post #46
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm only familiar with Russian, but "es" for "to be" feels weird too. And it's used where Russian would just omit it. Are there Slavic languages that are more liberal with it? And I feel like some form of Cyrillic would be much more natural both because of the available phonemes and because I believe most Slavic speakers would be more familiar with it than the Latin alphabet. As a non-native learner, I've always had…

> And I feel like some form of Cyrillic would be much more natural both because of the available phonemes and because I believe most Slavic speakers would be more familiar with it than the Latin alphabet. (South) Slavic speaker here. Cyrillic would not be much more natural, we haven't used Cyrillic in over 30 years. Latin would be something all of us Slavenes would be able to read.

Americans telling Slavic speakers what's a more natural alphabet. Feels like a parallel to something.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#154
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russian just is not a great example of a Slavic language. i am not sure what you mean but russian is by far the biggest slavic language in terms of number of speakers. i also think it is the biggest in terms of number of litterary and academic works

Having no neighbor to the east helped with that a bit. From my west-slavic (Polish) perspective I can understand Czech, Slovakian (a bit harder) and Ukrainian semi-ok. But Russian is way, way harder (there are some similar words but most are alien to me). I didn't have chance to listen to south slavic languages so I don't know how similar they are to west slavic ones.

All the Balkan Slavic languages also feel just like dialects. I could very easily converse in Polish throughout all Baltic countries. Along with the ones you mentioned. I find Ukrainian very difficult though. I'm not a native Polish speaker so I chalk it up to that.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#155
As a linguist I find such community-driven projects fascinating as you can literally see before your very eyes in a time-lapse enabled through an artifically imposed restraint (here in reference to "Old Church Slavonic"; a different approach: Tonki Pona) the language "evolution" and get an humbling appreciation of the multitude of contingences under which languages evolve.

A simplified "linear" scheme I'm referring to:

From perfect "intelligibility" (universal language/Proto-language) --> mostly ("dialects") to limited ("seperate" language) to virtually none at all (seperate "language family").

Of course this gets complicated when e.g. different language families get in 'contact'. The current Persian language "Farsi" (an Indo-European language, the oldest well-attested Indo-Iranian languages being "Vedic Sanskrit", "Avestan" etc.) is heavily soaked with 'Arabic words' (Semitic language family) through the Islamic Conquest. One of many such examples:

Farsi: کتاب‎ (ketâb) "book", Old Hindi: कतेब (kateba) "book", "Qu'ran" comes from the Arabic root of ك ت ب‎ (k-t-b): "related to writing". "Arabic" in turn is related as a Semitic language to "Hebrew" which has exactly the same root כ־ת־ב: "forming words pertaining to writing". The constructed Proto-West Semitic word *katab: "prick, cut, scratch, scrape".

That being said, from a sociologist/ethnologist/historian perspective such artifical constructions are hardly compatible to the cultural complexities in the real world, so mostly it remains a very limited scholarly exercise or it gets "imposed" in order to "stick".

As someone speaking West-Slavic "Polish", learning East-Slavic "Russian" really unlocked for me a big cultural treasury chest which I would argue is even a better pay-off than trying to ideally reconstruct a "neutral" language to circumvent the deep rooted "political" resentments. As a fun "cognitive"/"evolutionary" exercise, I'm all for it but in order to really appreciate the cultural richness (language as an expression) immersing yourself in a 'living' language is so much "brain-compatible: (1) Don't obssess over "correctness" and (2) realize the more languages you actually learn the easier it gets to aquire more. (If you speak French and learn Spanish, Latin will connect a lot of things and in the end Italian will be a "breeze") Transfered to "Slavic" from a "Polish" perspective in learning some "Bulgarian" and "Lithuanian" with my "Russian" in the end you get more bang for the buck. 3 languages are not 3 languages. E.g. "Russian", "Japanese" and "Arabic" would be 1-2 orders of magnitude "costlier".

To sum it all up: The most elegant and beautiful solution in one's mind ([...] what Old Church Slavonic would have become had it been allowed to develop naturally over the centuries [...]) can distract you from the obivous and the most feasible solution, now, in the real world of "communicating". Just learn the languages "and" at the same time enjoy the beauty of the interconnectedness of languages. There is no pure language, they are all connected, in my eyes: beautifully, as they to my constant surprise succinctly bear our cultural heritages.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#156
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us offer sacrifices today, too. In most Slavic countries, it is customary to slay and eat a pig on certain holidays, like Christmas and our Slava. In the US you kill turkeys for Thanksgiving. How different is that compared to other "sacrifices"?

We do it for the fun and food, not for some pseudo gods.

You can colour it any way that you like. Many Americans would likely baulk at the idea of a turkey-less Thanksgiving. It is a central theme of the holiday. What else is it, if not a sacrifice?

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USSR was a blasphemy because of it's communist nature. It was an abomination born in blood. Slavs were never for communism.

> Slavs were never for communism i disagree to some extent. historically slavic culture tends to be much more communal than rest of europe. even in eu you can see this manifested in thr resistance to liberalism that comes from all (?) slavic countries

I think Slavs historically tended more towards decentralized structure. So maybe communal in a small community structure.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#158
post #21
post #4

Interslavic is another similar project. They don't like Slovio too much: http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/index.html http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/faq.html#slovio

As a speaker of Croatian (southern Slavic) and Ukrainian (western Slavic), both Slavio and InterSlavic are bad from the Croatian POW, but InterSlavic is definitely a better choice in either case. Many word forms in InterSlavic just seem like strangely archaic versions of Croatian, but might pass as "just strange" for Ukrainian.

Just a nitpick: Ukrainian is Eastern Slavic.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#159
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russian just is not a great example of a Slavic language. i am not sure what you mean but russian is by far the biggest slavic language in terms of number of speakers. i also think it is the biggest in terms of number of litterary and academic works

Having no neighbor to the east helped with that a bit. From my west-slavic (Polish) perspective I can understand Czech, Slovakian (a bit harder) and Ukrainian semi-ok. But Russian is way, way harder (there are some similar words but most are alien to me). I didn't have chance to listen to south slavic languages so I don't know how similar they are to west slavic ones.

There was a neighbor to the east about a thousand years ago. Ever since, there are a lot of Tatar and Mongolian words in Russian.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did not work out because the binding ideology wasn't pan-slavism, but rather bad mix of communism and socialism. Also, instead of returning to our root slavic religion, we got atheism. Without any form of religion, people can not feel that deep bond. Especially Slavic people, who are naturaly very religious. Yugoslavia was a mistake, but not for reasons you might think.

I'm pretty sure that "returning to the root Slavic religion" would involve offering massive cow sacrifices to the thunder god Perun in exchange for long life and prosperity. Not sure if that's what you had in mind, though!

There were decentralized Christian-like religions like Bogomils (Cathars in Western Europe) in south Slavic parts before modern centralized religions. Maybe those would work better with Slavs who seem to not organize well around centralized sources of power.
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