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Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

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Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#71

Post by [deleted] »

traceroute66 wrote: post #45
bryans wrote: post #15

Tinnitus is usually only described as a high-pitched ringing, but I think it gets far worse when it's on the lower end of the frequency spectrum. It's much more noticeable and can make discerning speech very difficult at times. But while the higher frequencies can be somewhat easily tuned out using white noise (like a fan), the lower frequencies are just always there, even when you're listening to music -- there is a…

> Use them even when you think it makes you look dorky at the club or concert or sporting event. Yeah, but that's the problem, just like the Western world attitude to masks and COVID. With COVID, all those Western big babies referring to masks as muzzles, nappies etc. and shouting about "muh freedom". All this despite indisputable objective scientific evidence to the contrary that masks work, let alone all the subjec…

[deleted]

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#72

Post by FollowingTheDao »

The_rationalist wrote: post #59
philliphaydon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I have tinnitus. Noise cancelling headphones make my head hurt as it feels like it amplifies the ringing.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jibirin1925/82/1/82_1_1...

Yes, klonopin helps reduce my tinnitus. And Tofisopam drug is a different type of benzodiazepine (not for sale in the U.S. or Canada) which blocks the glutamate AMPA receptor.

Glutamate excitotoxicity is at the core of tinnitus, and this is why diet also effects the strength and appearance of my tinnitus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6458046/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03785...

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#73

Post by FollowingTheDao »

cptnapalm wrote: post #70

I've had tinnitus as long as I can remember with the exception of one day: the first time I had my ears cleaned. Earwax compacted to being rock hard was pulled out and I was told that it had probably been building up in my ears for more than a decade. I was 17 at the time. My ear canals are very narrow, there's a lot of hair in my ears, my wax is mushy rather than flaky. Also, I had a lot of ear infections when I was…

The effect of the ear cleaning was probably placebo. Stress and tinnitus go together because tinnitus is associated with glutamate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6407646/

I have had it since I was a child and I have an anxiety disorder, Klonopin diminishes my tinnitus.

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#74

Post by FollowingTheDao »

jader201 wrote: post #16

Not sure why I click into comment threads on HN about tinnitus, hoping for positive news or anecdotes, but it’s almost always the opposite. So I’ll share my positive anecdote. I’ve dealt with it for over 10 years, and while I can’t imagine how happy I would be to find an effective treatment, I’ve learned to cope, and do what I can to protect hearing going forward. And once you realize you can cope with it, it makes f…

Some people give up and cope with a health issues, some people cope with it ask still try to solve the problem.

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#75

Post by P_I_Staker »

traceroute66 wrote: post #45
bryans wrote: post #15

Tinnitus is usually only described as a high-pitched ringing, but I think it gets far worse when it's on the lower end of the frequency spectrum. It's much more noticeable and can make discerning speech very difficult at times. But while the higher frequencies can be somewhat easily tuned out using white noise (like a fan), the lower frequencies are just always there, even when you're listening to music -- there is a…

> Use them even when you think it makes you look dorky at the club or concert or sporting event. Yeah, but that's the problem, just like the Western world attitude to masks and COVID. With COVID, all those Western big babies referring to masks as muzzles, nappies etc. and shouting about "muh freedom". All this despite indisputable objective scientific evidence to the contrary that masks work, let alone all the subjec…

Um, yes it actually does have to be that loud sometimes. Some venues have taken your advice and it's lead to lame events where some people can barely hear the music in certain parts of the venue and there's no punch, even right next to the speakers.

It's even noticeable, because a lot of venues have this really annoying practice of turning the system way down for the openers, thus hamstringing their set, and making the headliner look that much better. Believe me, artists can look really silly playing quiet elevator music while we wait for the real act. (what a fing rip if you paid $50-100+ on a ticket).

Loudness is a component to musical enjoyment. Very much like the carbonation, acid, and alcohol we add to drinks to make them fun. In those cases too, our bodies can be damaged too. Often times what's fun, hurts us. I do think it's stupid if they don't have hearing protection available.

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#76

Post by ycombinete »

The_rationalist wrote: post #57

As a reminder,Japaneses in the 90s are the only one to have found effective treatments for Tinnitus, however like most research from non-occidental countries, it has been universally ignored and suffering persist. https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jibirin1925/82/1/82_1_1...

That sounds amazing. Do you have any more information?

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#77

Post by The_rationalist »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #72
The_rationalist wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jibirin1925/82/1/82_1_1...

Yes, klonopin helps reduce my tinnitus. And Tofisopam drug is a different type of benzodiazepine (not for sale in the U.S. or Canada) which blocks the glutamate AMPA receptor. Glutamate excitotoxicity is at the core of tinnitus, and this is why diet also effects the strength and appearance of my tinnitus. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6458046/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378…

No, your answer makes sense but your are being fooled. Tofisopam is not a benzodiazepine. It is what we call a 2,3 benzodiazepine. This is an exception that makes it radically different than any other benzo. It does not directly bind at GABA-A like e.g klonopin and is a weaker anxyolitic. It's action mechanisms is very atypical, it acts as a PDE inhibitor, as a GABA PAM and as a dopamine presynaptic antagonist, making it mildly stimulant. The effect on phopshodiesterases give it unique pharmacology including neuroprotective effects.

Therefore this study shows effectiveness that is theoretically higher than regular benzos. I don't think that regular benzos or tofisopam block the AMPA receptors, although their increase in inhibitory GABA has a similar effect. It would make sense to combine benzos with an NMDA antagonist such as e.g memantine in order to reduce excitotoxicity (or weaker ones like magnesium l-threonate)

I advise you to try tofisopam (grandaxin) especially since it is a safe and extensively studied drug. Tofisopam is for sale in the U.S, OTC in practice e.g on rupharma, cosmicnootropics, possibly indiamart, etc You should not take it in combination with klonopin nor any other drug without advice from an expert (spoiler almost no-one is qualified) as interactions are possible. E.g it is a CYP inhibitor like grappefruit juice. note that the dose escalation must be very slow since tofisopam slightly increase heart contractility which can give non-dangerous but scary transient heart palpitations for a limited subset of the population.

There are many interesting neuroprotectants/modulator e.g BPC-157, cerebrolysin, etc However the most promising treatment besides tofisopam, is a drug that is only available in japan: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Effectiveness-of-Celep... It is likely that tinnitus is already a solved problem, but no one knows it yet besides a few retired scientists.

A complete pharmacological response would also look in synaptotrophics and in mitochondria targeted antioxidants, such as SkQ1

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#78

Post by clsec »

syspec wrote: post #29
gibs0ns wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine this, you're laying in bed at night, it's quiet outside just as it should be when sleeping, except for the constant ringing of your tinnitus. You roll over, maybe you cover your ears or put a pillow over them, but the ringing sound doesn't change. In fact you realise nothing you do has any effect on the ringing sound - it's coming from within your head/ears, how do you block out a sound which is emanating fro…

That sounds really rough, I used to listen to my music very loudly when I was young and getting tinnitus is one of my fears as I get older. How did you get tinnitus? Is the loud music thing a myth? Is yours at least not getting progressively worse?

I believe that it's true. I've had it for >25 years and my belief is was caused by lots of loud music in small clubs, where you're more likely to stand next to the speakers, and working in a very loud machine shop when I was younger.

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#79

Post by rhino369 »

chakintosh wrote: post #41
BossingAround wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remember that noise-cancelling is NOT hearing protection I fell for this one as well. I wouldn't be to surprised if noise-cancelling could actually cause tinnitus, or make an onset of it worse (though I haven nothing but biased anecdata to argue the opinion).

One thing is sure is that Noise-cancellinng makes tinnitus more noticeable as it's not being drown out by the environment sounds. And It also allows you to listen to music on a much lower volume, which is actually better for your ears.

I didn't even realize I had tinnitus until I used noise-canceling headphones.

Re: Treatment for Tinnitus with Stimulation of Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerves

#80

Post by rhino369 »

colpabar wrote: post #9
paraph1n wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(genuine question) How is there a clear path from tinnitus to depression?

I have tinnitus and I can see it too. Tinnitus is a constant ringing in one or both ears. Constant, as in it is always there. There is no true silence anymore, because the ringing is always there. There is also no cure, and really no certified treatment. All we can do is distract ourselves with other sounds and try not to focus on it, but it can still be very mentally draining. Without the right mindset, it’s an extr…

There is also a feedback loop component. Tinnitus causes depression. And then you worry and focus on how awful it is, which makes the tinnitus worse.

I only hear my tinnitus when I think about it. Otherwise my mind filters it out.

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