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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#761

Post by ethbr0 »

labster wrote: post #620
ethbr0 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moscow from Ukraine border: ~520 km Moscow from Latvian border: ~620 km Not to mention full control of a Black Sea (and therefore entrance to Mediterranean) coastline with multiple ports. As well as a major agricultural products. As well as a huge transit country for Russian energy pipelines.

What does slightly more access to the Mediterranean get you when no European country will buy your goods? All of those things you mentioned are worthless without buyers. Except the farm land. But it’s not 1444 — trade is vastly more profitable than agriculture nowadays.

IMHO, Putin is looking at this from a century perspective. I.e. in a hundred years, the sanctions will be gone, Europe will be trading with Russia again, and Russia will still have the land.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#762

Post by throwawaylinux »

amcoastal wrote: post #714
throwawaylinux wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ever wonder about people who fall for baseless conspiracy theories about stolen elections? How could they possibly fall for these politicians and other assorted nutjobs telling them the election was stolen, without ever providing the evidence? Dumb uneducateds! They're nothing like us enlightened intellectuals.

Your red herring arguments and whataboutism is noted. Stretching arguments about obvious ties to russia to being "election = stolen", while ignoring the actual 40℅ of the country who still believes trumps bullshit. I will also note that there were dozens of confirmed contacts between trump and Russia and you see the bromance still playing out to this day.

I'm clearly saying you didn't fall for the baseless idiotic conspiracy theories about Biden stealing the election or Trump colluding with Putin to hack the election, or being a "foreign agent". Not sure what you're all worked up about.

And I'm not talking about "obvious ties to Russia" whatever that means (everyone seems to have weird ties and uranium sales and gas company deals with Russia, Ukraine, etc). I'm talking about the delusional baseless conspiracy theory that Trump colluded or conspired with Putin to hack or otherwise influence the election. That was the conspiracy theory that so many were repeating and so so many gullible people fell for.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#764

Post by p_l »

type0 wrote: post #737
usrusr wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So tell us, which of the letters in USSR is for "Russia"?

RSFSR - Russia is officially recognized as continuation state of USSR by the UN

Turns out it's just inertia, also the last constituent member of USSR to leave (and thus logical successor) is... Kazakhstan

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#765

Post by keymone »

locallost wrote: post #760
keymone wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, i've donated to ukrainian army that is fighting to stop the fascist russian scourge and i'm helping to coordinate delivery of humanitarian aid so that people aren't dying because of fascist russian scourge. all of that hopefully helps ukraine last enough for russia to collapse and become a dead wasteland with no oil or gas exports. what are you doing again?

I asked what are you doing to stop the world's dependance on russian gas because you brought it up in. Considering you are avoiding the answer in an emotionally charged way I bet the answer is nothing and that you own at least two motor vehicles and heat your home on natural gas (from Russia).

i've answered. you're dodging. what are you doing to stop putin?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#766

Post by locallost »

keymone wrote: post #765
locallost wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked what are you doing to stop the world's dependance on russian gas because you brought it up in. Considering you are avoiding the answer in an emotionally charged way I bet the answer is nothing and that you own at least two motor vehicles and heat your home on natural gas (from Russia).

i've answered. you're dodging. what are you doing to stop putin?

The argument you made is about the importance of nuclear because of russian gas. So the question is - see above. If you already forgot what you wrote I would be extremely happy to quote you.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#767

Post by hnlmorg »

simonh wrote: post #758
hnlmorg wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're literally arguing the same points I made: + It's not the fission material that explodes (like in a bomb) + The explosion is relatively small + Radiation is then dispersed to the wider area via atmospheric or tidal conditions (like smoke drifting) rather than as a direct result of the explosion All points I was making too. > but the consequences can still be catastrophic and as at Chernobyl the fallout can be s…

I disagree on the conclusion that damage to a nuclear reactor is a 'slow risk'. The Chernobyl explosion and open rector core fire, which spewed vast quantities of radioactive material into the atmosphere, occurred within a few hours and minutes of the mistakes that triggered them. It's plausible to imagine a few artillery shells into a plant's cooling system could lead to a similar chain of events and a catastrophic…

> The Chernobyl explosion and open rector core fire, which spewed vast quantities of radioactive material into the atmosphere, occurred within a few hours of the mistake that triggered them.

Chernobyl was a very unique situation though. They almost engineered that disaster to happen with the mistakes that they made. We've learned a lot since then too. That all said, you do make a very strong argument with your next sentence:

> It's plausible to imagine a few artillery shells into a plant's cooling system could lead to a similar chain of events.

Indeed. That is a very good point.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#768

Post by keymone »

locallost wrote: post #766
keymone wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've answered. you're dodging. what are you doing to stop putin?

The argument you made is about the importance of nuclear because of russian gas. So the question is - see above. If you already forgot what you wrote I would be extremely happy to quote you.

And I answered. Have troubles with reading comprehension?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#769

Post by xfitm3 »

ericd wrote: post #483
ck2 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purposely causing nuclear disasters is one way to ensure a country can never join NATO or the EU Putin doesn't have to occupy the country to "win", all he has to do is set them back to the dark ages and make everyone (who can) flee. He can't be allowed to get away with this. Ukraine needs a "no fly zone" ASAP

You realize that instituting a no fly zone means the US shooting down Russian aircraft, right? Which means a hot war between US/NATO and Russia. That is something that the US should absolutely not engage in, because the stakes at that point are the survival of the species, rather than just Ukraine. We need to not normalize the idea of a no fly zone, no matter how gut wrenching watching this war gets.

This is bananas. They need our help.

We absolutely need to keep pushing for a no-fly zone and enforce it. This is now the world's war, and has reached far beyond the politics internal to Russia and Ukraine.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#770

Post by 3np »

eru wrote: post #727
manholio wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the gp was referring to the filter in your own brain, that was set up by watching western media. The idea that you are somehow immune to this is unsustainable - I'm sure avid Putin fans feel the same, after all they have access to Google too. It's just that we are privileged to live in a relatively free societies, where bias is self imposed groupthink as opposed to mandated by the government. For an extreme v…

I was mostly referring to the filter outside the brain. You are right that we also have filters inside our brains. But just like with the outside filter, we can make some efforts to get around them. Even if our efforts don't always lead to perfection.

To borrow your framing, collectively internal filters will manifest as emergent external filters. It can be considered emergent/systemic propaganda. Even the freest societies fall victims to this.

That's not at all to say we're doomed to be brainwashed; along what you're saying, with conscious awareness, effort, openness to reassess, and honesty (first and foremost to oneself) we can better ourselves and the social groups we're each part of.

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