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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#631

Post by mcv »

runarberg wrote: post #621
zeven7 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then he got replaced 4 years later. Unlike what happened in Russia.

That didn’t happen with Bush, who conjured up a premise with multiple lies in order to justify going to war. And then 3 years later, he got re-elected.

That was by far the most disappointing US election. Electing a bad president is clearly a risk of democracy, but re-electing a bad president, that's incomprehensible. And yet that was the only presidential election in decades where the Republican candidate got the majority of the votes.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#632

Post by pasquinelli »

sidibe wrote: post #331
armada651 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only public statement I've read is that the Russian Army is concerned the Ukrainians would use their Nuclear Power Plants as dirty bombs.

It doesn't surprise me if they believe that considering the ridiculous stream of fantasy being spewed out of Russian leader and media.

No post body was provided.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#633

Post by mulmen »

adastra22 wrote: post #596
mulmen wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia doesn't need to control the immediate areas around nuclear plants in the initial phases of their invasion, it's lunacy that they aren't carefully avoiding them. We are over a week in, I think this is beyond the initial invasion timeframe. Russia has faced fierce resistance so I can understand a desire to weaken that defense. It’s a lot harder to stage a defense when you have no electricity. Strategically it…

Why not just cut the transmission lines?

Because they would have to occupy the area where the lines were cut to prevent repairs? I don't know. I'm not justifying what Russia is doing, but it isn't surprising.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#634

Post by mcv »

altacc wrote: post #564
qbasic_forever wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia most likely designed and built that reactor and the others in the country, back when it was part of the Soviet Union. I think it's safe to say they fully understand and are capable of operating nuclear reactors like it. edit: Construction started on it in 1980. This is a Soviet designed and built reactor. Russia should have no problem maintaining it.

It is highly unlikely there are be nuclear scientists with that knowledge amongst the armed forces currently invading Ukraine. The type of reactor may be known but each reactor and its instruments, controls and protocols will be unique in some way. The only people who are qualified to run this reactor safely are the staff who work there every day.

It's not impossible, though. Russia seems to have pressed a lot of civilians into service. Ukraine recently captured an entire squad of school teachers.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#635

Post by pasquinelli »

zeven7 wrote: post #462
da39a3ee wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately America has just shown us that it too can advance a wildly inappropriate and simply stupid individual to the highest levels of power.

But then he got replaced 4 years later. Unlike what happened in Russia.

i wonder how putin got there.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#636

Post by mulmen »

ericd wrote: post #594
twaw wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you are using salami tactics. Salami tactics works in both ways. You say that nobody will went crazy when a tactic nuke will be used against RF army. Right? Can you draw the line, please? When this war between two nuclear states will be nuclear, if even use of tactical nuke is not enough for you?

I’m just saying that the US isn’t going to engage in a massive species-ending strike over the Russians using a tactical nuke in a conflict with a non-NATO country. No idea what salami tactics means.

Even total nuclear war (probably) wouldn't end the species. Just civilization as we know it.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#637

Post by mnw21cam »

telomero22 wrote: post #616
gloriana wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the reactors are on, destroying any of the infrasture around it can be devastating. The reactors need external power to operate. If external power disappears, the reactors now need emergency power from diesel gen sets. If those fail due to any reason, the reactors will probably melt down - unless they have already been off for quite a while (~weeks would be necessary). If the reactors melt down, the VVER has both…

That's not correct. It only takes a couple of seconds to shut down a reactor. https://qr.ae/pGdkkv

The article you link disagrees with you.

The chain reaction can be shut down in a matter of seconds. However, the reactor continues to generate a huge amount of heat for weeks afterwards. It's not as much heat as a fully-running chain reaction, but it's still enough to cause a catastrophe if cooling is not kept running - we're talking multiple megawatts of heating here. The cooling requires an external power supply. It was the failure of this external power supply that caused the problems at Fukushima.

There are newer reactor designs that are specifically engineered to be capable of cooling themselves on shutdown without an external power supply. However, most reactors in the world do not have that capability.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#639

Post by tarsinge »

newby wrote: post #552
Merad wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're easy to shut down, but when the reactor is first turned off the core is full of unstable isotopes that are byproducts of the fission reaction. Those isotopes continue decaying even with the reactor "off" until the become stable, and they put out enough heat to cause a meltdown on their own. This means the reactor needs active cooling for a couple of weeks until it reaches a safe state. That's what happened at…

I did not know about that aspect of nuclear plants and in my non-expert view it would be a major point against nuclear plants in the discussion how to solve climate change (at least until we learn how to secure them in case of a war). Am I wrong? EDIT: I would also like to ask if you can recommend some source where curious layman with no knowledge of physics could learn a bit more about this.

You are not wrong that it's a major point in the discussion, but even with that it can still be better than the alternatives for baseline production (the part that intermittent sources like solar and wind can't cover). Remember that coal power add insult to injury by continuously releasing radioactive pollution.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#640

Post by mulmen »

twaw wrote: post #553
ericd wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of the world isn’t going to say “whelp, I guess it’s time to kick off the extinction of our species” and do a full set of city strikes over a tactical nuke being used. That would be absurd.

It looks like you are using salami tactics. Salami tactics works in both ways. You say that nobody will went crazy when a tactic nuke will be used against RF army. Right? Can you draw the line, please? When this war between two nuclear states will be nuclear, if even use of tactical nuke is not enough for you?

Ukraine isn't a nuclear state. They destroyed their nukes and joined the non-proliferation treaty in 1994.
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