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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#501

Post by MisterMower »

Putin is an evil genius.

He attacks a nuclear plant and creates the risk of a meltdown. The result will be to remind the EU about how scary nuclear power is and ensures public opinion stays firmly against the one power source that can wean them off Russian oil.

Also, it has strategic value as limiting power to the rest of Ukraine makes it harder to wage war. No power, less internet and communication, slowing the stream of awful (for Putin) pictures and videos of his brutal war.

And capturing it would be a propaganda coup at home. Putin stopped the evil Ukrainians from blowing up a massive dirty bomb.

Pure evil genius.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#502

Post by isomel »

slimsag wrote: post #56
jtbayly wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. So what’s the historical norm on those numbers?

Can't say historical, but 1,000 μsv/year is the annual limit / point at which increase cancer risk exists. Fukushima disaster levels were 400,000 μSv/h at peak. Short term dose of 10,000 μSv causes radiation sickness but probably not death. Beyond that it gets worse.

According to the Linear-no-threshold model [1], any level of radiation, no matter how small, causes cancer. According to this model, the 1,000 μsv/year of normal background radiation already cause cancer for 1% of people. And any additional dose increase the risk further.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model

However this model is contested. And the analysis on the cancers incidence in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Chernobyl seems to indicate that this model is flawed. The exact model is difficult to estimate because of the low number of extra cancer is lost in the noise.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#503

Post by ako »

zeven7 wrote: post #462
da39a3ee wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately America has just shown us that it too can advance a wildly inappropriate and simply stupid individual to the highest levels of power.

But then he got replaced 4 years later. Unlike what happened in Russia.

But there's a real treath that he can become president again. The real problem is that there's big gap in how the democrats see the world vs how republicans see the world. From the outside it's really mindblowing how differently they see and interpret the world. And the same is happening all over the world.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#504

Post by oddmiral »

Comevius wrote: post #157
doener wrote: post #98

Firefighter have access now: https://twitter.com/bnonews/status/1499555239351005194?s=21 https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499555095817728023?s=21 "According to Andrey Tuz, spokesman of the press service of the nuclear power plant, there is no threat of radiation spread."

Thankfully the reactors are behind the camera streaming the administrative building. Hopefully nothing goes wrong during the takeover. The reactor containment itself is robust, but the potential for human error in a war that keeps escalating should not be discounted.

Anything can go wrong AFTER takeover. Russians can convert power plant into nuclear landmine and blow up it on retreat. This is war between two nuclear states, so nuclear weapon will be used eventually.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#505

Post by sschueller »

MisterMower wrote: post #501

Putin is an evil genius. He attacks a nuclear plant and creates the risk of a meltdown. The result will be to remind the EU about how scary nuclear power is and ensures public opinion stays firmly against the one power source that can wean them off Russian oil. Also, it has strategic value as limiting power to the rest of Ukraine makes it harder to wage war. No power, less internet and communication, slowing the stre…

There is no way to predict where exactly the toxic cloud will go[1] and it can affect Russians as much as the rest of Europe. Just settings part of an outside structure on fire is too risky and is not "Pure evil genius" but total insanity or military incompetence.

I would be happier if they blew up Chernobyl again as at least there is no more pressure cooker that can blow this shit high into the sky a seconds time.

[1] https://gdb.rferl.org/94D46F09-409D-415F-B87D-836E88607ECF_w...

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#506

Post by oddmiral »

kulikalov wrote: post #474
eru wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Purposely causing nuclear disasters is one way to ensure a country can never join NATO or the EU Why? Nuclear disaster is bad, but how would it ensure that a country can _never_ join NATO or the EU? Ukraine already had the Chernobyl disaster on their soil, and I don't see that one as keeping them out of either organisation _forever_.

Even though it was on Ukrainian soil, still: USSR had Chernobyl disaster, not Ukraine. It’s one of the reasons Ukraine separated from USSR.

So, USA used nukes 2 times, while USSR blow up 1 nuclear reactor.

2:1

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#507

Post by hans_castorp »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #135

Allegedly, Ukrainian firefighters were shot at by Russian troops. If true, then that’s another war crime to add to the growing list.

> If true, then that’s another war crime to add to the growing list.

So what?

Russia (like the USA btw) does not acknowledge the jurisdiction of the ICC. The dictator in Moscow (and his minions) will just laugh at any conviction from there.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#508

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #439
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #312

https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2022/03/4/7328008/ (link in Russian, that's a big newspaper in Ukraine) the units of chechen warlord Kadyrov are fighting inside the building of the power station, and are said to be laying mines, as a means of exerting pressure. What could go wrong... This kadyrov is totally mad, they introduced Sharia law in their chechen republic, and putin doesn't want to interfer with this madn…

"and putin doesn't want to interfer with this madness" Putin installed Kadyrov. "On 2 March 2007, following Putin's nomination of Kadyrov as Chechen president, the Chechen parliament approved the nomination." Wikipedia

of course you are correct, they coopted Chechnya, after the second Chechen war [1] Now a month ago they had a big scandal with an ex-chechen judge, forces under the command of kadyrov snatched the wife of the judge from a region that is not part of Chechnya. This was a big scandal, as the authority of the central government in Moscow is kind of put into question. Putin did avoid a conflict with Kadyrov, i think that makes sense in hindsight: he needed kadyrov and his forces for the planned war... See here: [2] All that happened a month before the outbreak of the war; that may be an indication, that the war was already a decided matter, at that point in time.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

[2] https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-chechnya-judge-flees-wife-abd...

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#509

Post by jskrablin »

MisterMower wrote: post #501

Putin is an evil genius. He attacks a nuclear plant and creates the risk of a meltdown. The result will be to remind the EU about how scary nuclear power is and ensures public opinion stays firmly against the one power source that can wean them off Russian oil. Also, it has strategic value as limiting power to the rest of Ukraine makes it harder to wage war. No power, less internet and communication, slowing the stre…

I am quite sure he's just evil. A nuclear disaster as a result of russian shelling will for sure result in a direct NATO involvement. And despite all of it's propaganda, Russia cannot win a conventional war against NATO and nobody wins in nuclear confrontation. So I'll call him an idiot, because there's no wining this one. It's just stupid bully tactics.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#510

Post by oddmiral »

ericd wrote: post #483
ck2 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purposely causing nuclear disasters is one way to ensure a country can never join NATO or the EU Putin doesn't have to occupy the country to "win", all he has to do is set them back to the dark ages and make everyone (who can) flee. He can't be allowed to get away with this. Ukraine needs a "no fly zone" ASAP

You realize that instituting a no fly zone means the US shooting down Russian aircraft, right? Which means a hot war between US/NATO and Russia. That is something that the US should absolutely not engage in, because the stakes at that point are the survival of the species, rather than just Ukraine. We need to not normalize the idea of a no fly zone, no matter how gut wrenching watching this war gets.

If RF will blow up nuclear reactor, Ukraine and EU will be uninhabitable, but USA will be safe.
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