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New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

nytimes.com

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Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#21

Post by CountSessine »

minhazm wrote: post #17
CSMastermind wrote: post #7

I'm surprised they weren't already in one. I worked at a competitor (the Wall St. Journal) years ago and all software engineers there had to be part of the union. Unions in the news industry are extremely common and powerful. My subjective experience with it was that union membership was mostly inconsequential for developers. The market for programmers is so strong that people would just leave if they weren't treated…

> all software engineers there had to be part of the union. Is that legal? Can unions or companies force you to join the union as a condition of employment?

Of course they can - unless you live in a jurisdiction with a so-called “right to work” statute.

If you weren’t forced to join then, in theory, management could subvert and then break the union by hiring lots of new employees who are compensated to “opt-out”.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#22

Post by jart »

Apocryphon wrote: post #13
tehjoker wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet that also means that they have leverage forming a union too. If the employer can't afford to lose em, that's a great time to cement power.

That's what I meant, actually. This is the time when workers have the most leverage to preserve that leverage for the long-term. Doing so through institutions like unions is one method.

Only if it's through industrial unionism like the wobblies. Craft unionism isn't scalable.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#23

Post by andrew_ »

erulabs wrote: post #2

I need the long German word for “however this plays out, it will be used as a spurious example either for or against some extreme position”. If it works out, great - that hardly means unions are a foolproof idea - and if it fails it’s hardly a condemnation of unions themselves. And yet, it will be interesting to see how this plays out!

That's confirmation bias, no?

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#24

Post by MattGaiser »

the_duke wrote: post #19
CSMastermind wrote: post #7

I'm surprised they weren't already in one. I worked at a competitor (the Wall St. Journal) years ago and all software engineers there had to be part of the union. Unions in the news industry are extremely common and powerful. My subjective experience with it was that union membership was mostly inconsequential for developers. The market for programmers is so strong that people would just leave if they weren't treated…

That's exactly the time to unionize! The employer has limited leverage to bust any union efforts. When the employment market is weak and you are scrounging for a job it's a lot easier to threaten/scare everyone into submission.

But why bother?

I wouldn’t even bother raise concerns to a manager in this employment environment, yet alone be willing to fight for a union if something annoyed me.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#25

Post by Spooky23 »

CSMastermind wrote: post #7

I'm surprised they weren't already in one. I worked at a competitor (the Wall St. Journal) years ago and all software engineers there had to be part of the union. Unions in the news industry are extremely common and powerful. My subjective experience with it was that union membership was mostly inconsequential for developers. The market for programmers is so strong that people would just leave if they weren't treated…

This of course isn’t a problem for HN posters, who are all 10x engineers or w/e.

Overall though, not having a contract, recourse and representation in a large company is a pretty big risk factor unless you just toil away in silence.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#26

Post by andrew_ »

rdtwo wrote: post #16
charcircuit wrote: post #10

Quoted post unavailable.

Yeah places that need unions usually have bad management. The #1 reason to form a Union is that you work for shitty unreasonable managers

I've never loved a job so much that I'd try to organize versus finding a better home for my trade. It's a concept that's completely foreign to me. In tech, we've never been in a market this vast and this thirsty for talent. Making a move has never been more possible or more lucrative. It just doesn't add up for me personally.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#27

Post by mikeryan »

goodluckchuck wrote: post #15

So will NYT be a union shop / the union will have a monopoly, have multiple unions, or have a mix of union and non-union work?

In a large and varied company like the New York Times you’re going to have multiple Unions representing different workers. The printers won’t usually be in the same union as the tech workers.

You’ll always have a mix of union and non-union work since managers can’t be in the union and certain types of work may not be covered by one of the current unions.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#28

Post by Kalium »

the_duke wrote: post #19
CSMastermind wrote: post #7

I'm surprised they weren't already in one. I worked at a competitor (the Wall St. Journal) years ago and all software engineers there had to be part of the union. Unions in the news industry are extremely common and powerful. My subjective experience with it was that union membership was mostly inconsequential for developers. The market for programmers is so strong that people would just leave if they weren't treated…

That's exactly the time to unionize! The employer has limited leverage to bust any union efforts. When the employment market is weak and you are scrounging for a job it's a lot easier to threaten/scare everyone into submission.

This also describes an environment where the union doesn't seem to be offering any significant benefits to developers. If unionizing doesn't improve your working conditions, what's the point of the union?

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#29

Post by kortilla »

CountSessine wrote: post #21
minhazm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all software engineers there had to be part of the union. Is that legal? Can unions or companies force you to join the union as a condition of employment?

Of course they can - unless you live in a jurisdiction with a so-called “right to work” statute. If you weren’t forced to join then, in theory, management could subvert and then break the union by hiring lots of new employees who are compensated to “opt-out”.

That’s absolutely insane that a union can prevent people from working for a company without paying for their “protection”.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#30

Post by Spooky23 »

iamjfu wrote: post #3

Some highlights > The workers voted in favor, 404 to 88 > The group is the biggest tech union with bargaining rights in America. https://nytimesguild.org/tech-vote-count

That sounds like nonsense to me. I can think of single sites of a few defense contractors with more unionized engineers.
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