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iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

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Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#61

Post by dr_zoidberg »

williamtwild wrote: post #46
cyberpunk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but if you're a serious developer, 'security person' or otherwise, the cost of entry for apple is not a problem. I know I'll get abused probably for saying it, but I mean come on. An apple device is what, one days worth of consultancy time? For a security researcher maybe an hour? It's the cost of business. If you're priced out of getting into that particular game (I was too, once) t…

10k a year? Where would one libe earning 10k a year? A tent in the woods?

There are countries were earning 12k USD a year puts you in the top 1%. Just to give you some context.

Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#62

Post by exikyut »

chrismorgan wrote: post #58
jjcon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't daily drive an iPhone and you don't want to buy into Apples ecosystem, why do you want to develop for their ecosystem (which of course requires $100 a year to do so)? Genuinely curious cause I see a lot of people with this sentiment, is it for work related purposes or something? Or testing of web work potentially?

For myself, it’s mostly web stuff with Safari and Safari on iOS that I’d really like to be able to test from time to time.

Then macOS + Xcode + simulator would probably be the most cost-effective solution.

*(Small glance at QEMU)*

Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#63

Post by eptcyka »

dr_zoidberg wrote: post #61
williamtwild wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10k a year? Where would one libe earning 10k a year? A tent in the woods?

There are countries were earning 12k USD a year puts you in the top 1%. Just to give you some context.

If I was earning 10k a year, I wouldn't want to buy an apple device new. A good return too would be incredibly expensive.

Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#65

Post by exikyut »

neurostimulant wrote: post #55
gzer0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am struggling to understand where you are coming from. Can you elaborate? The cheapest second-hand iPhone that runs the latest iOS 15.0+ is an iPhone SE 1st gen (2016). Current prices on eBay indicate a price of $70. There is not a single Android that has been supported for this long of a time.

Second-hand iphones are expensive in asia. For example, that second-hand iphone SE 2020 you mentioned cost ~$350 here. That's more expensive than some locally-produced mid-range android phones.

Wow, I'm very curious as to why! Is it because they're imported, or because the asia-side emphasis is on export?

This also makes me wonder what the price dropoff across models is compared to the worldwide average. Is every model "oh wow" more expensive, or is there a gradient upward trend that tapers off the closer you get toward the iPhone 13 end?

Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#66

Post by wutwut5521 »

chrismorgan wrote: post #39
smackeyacky wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can semi not buy into the apple ecosystem at the moment. Purchase a 2nd hand iphone and then run this Docker based OSX system: https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX It's fine for personal projects using something like usbfluxd to talk to your iphone from the docker container. I wouldn't rely on it to do commercial work.

The cheapest second hand iPhones that run the current version of iOS (but are right at the tail of any support) are on the high side of the price range of what I’ve ever spent on a new, primary phone that I expect to last me at least several years. (And although it’s not as common as the alternative, I’m hardly alone in not spending much on phones; now laptops, on the other hand—.) I don’t want to spend more on a dev…

When I did iOS dev I could get by okay with an ipod touch, since I did not need cell or GPS testing. These are $200 new, $150 refurbed for the prev edition. The other route to go is a device farm service, IIRC AWS offers this nowadays.

Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#67

Post by lucb1e »

cyberpunk wrote: post #31
lucb1e wrote: post #3

With this, would it finally be possible to test iOS apps without having to first buy into the Apple ecosystem? Seems super helpful for developers, security testing, etc.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but if you're a serious developer, 'security person' or otherwise, the cost of entry for apple is not a problem. I know I'll get abused probably for saying it, but I mean come on. An apple device is what, one days worth of consultancy time? For a security researcher maybe an hour? It's the cost of business. If you're priced out of getting into that particular game (I was too, once) t…

I don't spend €500 on a locked-down device that I can't do anything with.

But if there's a nice open source emulator for €50 (or in this case, free?!) where I control literally everything, that opens up a world of possibilities.

Also, don't overlook students, countries other than the richest thirty or so, and income discrepancies within those countries in general (especially in the USA where the discrepancy (Gini index from the World Bank) is between that of Kenya and Bolivia). One might want to learn and not yet have that well-paying job, or do it as a side project for fun.

> what, one days worth of consultancy time?

Let's go for the iPhone 11 from OP, checking... that's €519 from the cheapest store in NL (huh that 500 euros above was a good guess). That's 2½–3½ weeks of work for this security consultant. (That's a long time to go without food and rent! :P) If you can pay me that many times better that I could afford this after one day of working, without having to relocate to some faraway country, then contact info is in my profile!

---

I do agree with your point in general I suppose. Yes, in many countries serious iOS developers and security firms that have more than one customer request for an iOS app review per year will easily be able to afford the necessary devices, and if needed wait long enough for a jailbreak to exist. But if I want to make an app for fun, and to even get started I need to invest hundreds of euros? In a platform I'll never use? Well, that's why the few small apps that I built are all Android-only.

Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#68

Post by user-the-name »

smoldesu wrote: post #53
cyberpunk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an apple fanboy. I do have a M1, but I once spent 4 months porting KDE to solaris 10 x86 to run on a hp probook (and even got paid to do it)... I routinely try to exit the apple ecosystem but it always costs me pain and time, which hasn't been worth it for a number of years now. looks at drawer of ubuntu dell XPS's, ThinkPads running openbsd, etc etc . I've fucking TRIED ... :( It's been linux and bsd machine…

Then it's not for you. No shame in admitting that. For other people, though, Macbooks simply also don't make sense. Wanna run that 32-bit plugin you use in Photoshop? You're out of luck. How about some advanced Docker development? Hope you don't plan on doing it locally. Hunted by your government for whistleblowing? Probably shouldn't use a laptop that can automate the process of ratting you out. If you're a webdev o…

No post body was provided.

Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#69

Post by yeahsure »

dr_zoidberg wrote: post #61
williamtwild wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10k a year? Where would one libe earning 10k a year? A tent in the woods?

There are countries were earning 12k USD a year puts you in the top 1%. Just to give you some context.

I live in one of these countries. There are lots of people who earn a lot less than 12k/yr but buy brand new iPhones. Why? Because their resale value is awesome. They lose very little value over the years, because a lot of people want to own one, so even used ones retain value. Even if it's something old like an iphone 6 or something like that.

If you buy an android phone, chances are you're going to sell it for a lot less than you got it for unless you're talking about a flagship that's not too old.

Re: iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU

#70

Post by scarface74 »

gman83 wrote: post #57
jjcon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't daily drive an iPhone and you don't want to buy into Apples ecosystem, why do you want to develop for their ecosystem (which of course requires $100 a year to do so)? Genuinely curious cause I see a lot of people with this sentiment, is it for work related purposes or something? Or testing of web work potentially?

I have some sideproject apps that I built with Flutter that I use on my Android phone, and I would make them available on iOS if I didn't have to pay any money to do so.

So the question is why would I as a consumer want to buy a least common denominator app using a cross platform framework that wasn’t actually tested on real hardware?
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