Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4 • Hacker News Board

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#981

Post by nextlevelwizard » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 8:27 PM UTC

TheKarateKid wrote: post #973

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a opposite view: Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. Commuting is different in different places. For me it is 15 minute drive to the office from a neighboring smaller city where…

> Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. We as humans are not designed to be productive selves 5 days in a row, for 8 hours a day. If I'm not feeling well or having a bad day, I might…

>If I'm not feeling well or having a bad day, I might finish working an hour or two early but make up for it by working overtime another day that week.

That is no issue. In fact in my company we don't care how long you work per day or when you work. People tell us how many hours they can work per month and they get paid accordingly. Of course the union sets some minimum and maximum numbers we can do, but in essense it is normal to work flexible hours. Even to just take days off and do either longer days or work on a weekend/holiday if that's what you want. Or work hours "into bank" before hand and then take days/hours off. No problem with that.

My problem is guys literally working 9-5, expect "lunch break" takes 2-3 hours since they are playing a video game.

>If someone can meet/exceed their responsibilities in 5 hours, why do they need to spend 8 hours just because slower workers need that time? This just punishes efficient workers.

Except people will always find excuses why it wasn't their fault the feature/release/product didn't ship in time.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#982

Post by nextlevelwizard » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 8:28 PM UTC

fernandotakai wrote: post #897

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a opposite view: Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. Commuting is different in different places. For me it is 15 minute drive to the office from a neighboring smaller city where…

>I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. as long as their tasks are done, who cares? i take a 30min nap after lunch almost every day but i could also do a FFXIV dungeon instead.

You conveniently missed the first part where I said their output has noticeably dropped during the remote working period.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#983

Post by nextlevelwizard » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #953

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a opposite view: Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. Commuting is different in different places. For me it is 15 minute drive to the office from a neighboring smaller city where…

> I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. Yeah, kinda guilty of that. Zero gym and during the winter hours where end of work = end of sun, I've had times where I take a walk. Usually more than 1 unproductive day leads to me just usi…

>"sick but still productive" day at home

I don't get this. If you are sick then be sick. Instead of working 3-5 days in half capacity just take a rest day or two and you'll be back to 100%. As I've understood some countries have limited sick days, but that's not a thing here. I always tell my team members to take sick day if they don't feel 100% because over all it will be more productive if people work they they are healthy.

And as per pre-pandemic remote working days were always an option, just not full time since there were days like sprint start and ending days that were much smoother when everyone was present in person.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#984

Post by passivate » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:22 PM UTC

Forgeties79 wrote: post #935

passivate wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is a job just an exchange of labor for payment? I view it as so much more. Even if we look at it from a job perspective, its also an opportunity to build personal connections between team members; "I owe you one" - goes a long way. Yes you can absolutely build these personal connections online, and it may be easier for introverted people, but I would say for most people a handshake or a smile passing down the hal…

My friend, 95% of my coworkers have very little understanding what I do to the point where I could ghost for a week and there’d be probably 80% chance no one would be the wiser. Lots of jobs are like that. Deadline are generally floating, a project can take 30min or 30 days, and micromanaging doesn’t help much if at all. I keep track of what I’m doing on GitHub, make sure my backups are good, and do my thing. They do…

Like you, I can only say based on my experience and from what I've seen or heard from other people. I accept that every workplace is different.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#985

Post by deanCommie » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:25 PM UTC

mdpye wrote: post #774

deanCommie wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree, but I am getting 1/8th of my waking hours back from commuting. What about all the people who already knew spending 2 hours commuting was a terrible use of our time before the pandemic, regardless of how much of a bigger house we could get? So we lived in dense cities, in walkable neighborhoods, where the office was a 15 minute walk away but so were restaurants, parks, grocery stores, and theaters? But part…

Surely you mean that the flat is for sleeping not living. They're too small for living, because all the living is done at the restaurants, bars, parks, theatres, offices and so on. If that's the style you prefer, then you need a co-working space to replace the office, in the same way your place probably isn't big enough to entertain people for dinner so you use a restaurant. And it's too dense with the neighbours to…

No? I can still have people over, and I can still enjoy my hobbies at home. But I don't have a spare bedroom going unused that I can make an office. My office can only overlapping with my personal "fun" space.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#986

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #819

codemac wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People should have an option to go fully remote, not be forced to do X number of days because reasons. This.. this is exactly what Google did - everyone had the option to go fully remote.

Huh? From the article it seems that this was something you had to request and get approval for (with 15% denied). Somewhere else I remember reading this would also cut your salary by 10%.

> Somewhere else I remember reading this would also cut your salary by 10%.

It totally depends on where you're living. It could even be a salary increase if you were previously working in a lower CoL office but have since moved to a high CoL region -- in that case your salary would increase. There's definitely no blanket single figure that applies (in either direction) to people who go fully remote.

E.g. my grand-boss is a fully remote worker based out of Manhattan. He's getting the highest pay tier.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#987

Post by dnate » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #853

com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

As a opposite view: Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. Commuting is different in different places. For me it is 15 minute drive to the office from a neighboring smaller city where…

Most if not all your points are moot if optional WfH is implemented. Which is what all the proponents of WfH want. I don't think anyone want's to force people to work from home. Just give us the options.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#988

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 11:29 PM UTC

craigie wrote: post #971

WalterBright wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when I worked in an office, everyone knew who the slackers were.

Why didn't the managers fire them?

Because they don't take any pleasure in firing them. Most managers will avoid doing it until they have to, like the budget must be cut.

Often they'll just shunt them into low prestige tasks, and hope they'll get the hint and leave on their own.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#989

Post by rufus_foreman » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 12:52 AM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #853

com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

As a opposite view: Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. Commuting is different in different places. For me it is 15 minute drive to the office from a neighboring smaller city where…

>> I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example

I've seen people playing ping pong during work hours in the office. They even have tournaments sometimes.

The horror.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#990

Post by rufus_foreman » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 1:17 AM UTC

_0w8t wrote: post #711

easytiger wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing highly paid office work with slavery is incredibly insulting.

Slavery is a strong word. But consider serfdom in Middle Ages. When some historian looked at it they found that on average a serf of a French baron say 700 years ago worked less than 40 hours per week on average. Perhaps even less than 30. And there was no commute. David Graeber in his «Dawn of everything» discussed that.

>> David Graeber in his «Dawn of everything» discussed that

David Graeber is the one who wrote this:

"Apple Computers is a famous example: it was founded by (mostly Republican) computer engineers who broke from IBM in Silicon Valley in the 1980s, forming little democratic circles of twenty to forty people with their laptops in each other’s garages"

And I'm guessing his knowledge of what happened 700 years ago is going to be much less accurate than his knowledge of times he lived through.