Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4 • Hacker News Board

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#901

Post by runako » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:26 PM UTC

librish wrote: post #400

runako wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read these and wonder what folks think about all the distributed teams in companies. Is the view that they are just generally less effective? > I want to be able to quickly resolve any issues in person I think this was more true for me when I was earlier in my career and remote tech really sucked. But now I see it as generally negative to have to sync with someone else to resolve an issue they (or I) am working on.…

Yes, I _personally_ believe distributed teams are less effective. As for your other point, that research is similar to the research on working from home. It measures a controlled thing, but certainly nothing I would use to extrapolate that software engineering teams work less efficiently when people can interrupt each other with questions easily. If you have any studies that you think are good feel free to link them,…

As I indicated, there has been a lot of published research on this specific topic as applied to software engineering teams. I would suggest you start with _Peopleware_ by DeMarco & Lister as a survey.

This research is categorically different from the research on working from home in that:

- it measures a facet of the workplace that is commonplace and standard

- it has been studied for several decades, and the results have held up. (IIRC the first such studies were done in the 1950s or 1960s.)

IMHO those arguing that people have changed enough that now they can better recover from interruptions than their predecessors could 20 or 30 years ago have the burden of proof, not the other way around.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#902

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:27 PM UTC

navbaker wrote: post #876

Hendrikto wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that working from home is great, and this is really not important, but I have to ask: > I can have someone come by and cut my cat's claws whenever need be. You have somebody else come over to cut your cat‘s claws?

As someone who has had both cats and dogs and currently has an otherwise well mannered dog who bites when his claws are touched, yes, that is a necessity with some animals.

[deleted]

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#903

Post by GFischer » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:28 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #883

com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

> My QoL is insanely improved. My question is: how did people not realize this before the pandemic? The workers of Silicon Valley (and other urban centres) literally created and sustained this problem all by themselves: "You have to get to Silicon Valley!"

People realized it. It was companies that were resisting it. I remember looking for remote work pre-pandemic and it was WAY harder, now it's more a default.

I'm in Uruguay, South America, so the pandemic has been an incredible boon to me. I even got a remote team management position !

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#904

Post by StevePerkins » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:29 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #886

headmelted wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To extend this, more useable time with family. For many people with younger children (and therefore early evening bedtimes), having or not having a commute is not a difference of an hour or two of your day - it's the difference between spending time with your family during the week versus not at all. I've heard this from many friends (and some family) across different industries - hardly any have wanted to stick thei…

This is of course true. OTOH, WFH people living alone can go many days without any human interaction. There is no arrangement that is "best" for everyone.

If you're going many days without any human interaction, then the issue isn't your inability to force your colleagues into the same physical space with you. The issue is that you're confusing your colleagues for a personal social support network.

Remote or in-office, that's not healthy. Go outside. Make real friendships with people you don't work with. And if you're struggling with that, then seek help. But don't force me into a car for 10 hours per week, just to help you fake a social support network.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#905

Post by thor_molecules » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:29 PM UTC

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Genuinely curious - why do you value "overall productivity" so much?

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#906

Post by School-Cotton » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

cebert wrote: post #411

School-Cotton wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, similar situation at the startup I work for (which has also more than doubled in headcount since Covid started). The distributedness genie can’t be put back in the bottle now, which has significant pros and cons. It does make a lot of things less efficient, but on the other hand, it also lets us hire good people who don’t necessarily want to relocate to NYC.

> It does make a lot of things less efficient Do you believe remote work is less efficient because your organization hasn’t adapted to remote work, or do you believe something about remote work somehow makes it inherently less efficient?

The latter, with the caveat that it makes some things less efficient, not all. As an example, having face-to-face conversations can allow you to hash things out much more quickly and easily than over Slack or Zoom.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#907

Post by mwest217 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #673

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

As a young person without children, I much prefer the office - I intentionally live close enough to the office that my commute is a 20 minute walk or a I can still work from home when I have errands to run or medical appointments, but I much prefer being in the office.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#908

Post by engineeringwoke » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

passivate wrote: post #392

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I've never had a problem. I typically talk to my team numerous times per day via Zoom, Slack, Phone, etc. I think the poster has an issue with their company that they are projected onto the industry.

>I think the poster has an issue with their company that they are projected onto the industry. Couldn't the same be said of you? I don't think anyone is asserting that one system is the best. If an entire team/company is able to be happy and productive in a remote-work situation, then more power to them. Its often the case that some people prefer remote, some don't. The ratio varies between companies. Personally, as…

It sounds like the OP we're replying to wants a daycare, not a company. There's plenty of them out there (including the original subject of conversation), but I wouldn't call it a preference.

People like this don't want a structured workplace because they prefer it; they want a structured workplace because they need it, because they never figured out how to live by themselves after university.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#909

Post by manuelabeledo » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

zaargy wrote: post #675

manuelabeledo wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But nothing replace morning coffee in the kitchen with colleagues! Isn’t this what “friends” are for?

Morning coffee at work is where you actually solve problems without managers butting in. You don't typically talk to friends about work as well.

> Morning coffee at work is where you actually solve problems without managers butting in.

I don't know what kind of job you do, but I find this the symptom of a highly inefficient work environment.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#910

Post by jvolkman » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:52 PM UTC

ryan_lane wrote: post #526

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

If you work at Google, even if everyone is "on-site", they're not at your site, and you still need to treat them as if they're remote. Once a company reaches a certain size, and has offices in multiple locations (and timezones, and potentially multiple countries), it's necessary to treat most people as if they're remote, because effectively, they are. Yes, your team may be fully in one office, but it's pretty rare to…

I know that corporate meeting room A/V is often an issue, but Google has pretty much solved that in their own offices. Their internal deployment of Meet works very well.