Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4 • Hacker News Board

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#771

Post by swiftcoder » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:05 AM UTC

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> I personally prefer a company where everyone's on site. I want to be able to quickly resolve any issues in person, not over voice call or slack.

Have you only ever worked for companies small enough to be co-located in a single office? This wasn't true at big corps even when we were all in the office.

Hey, the team that owns this is in Boston, 3 time zones from the West Cost. Oh, wait, that piece of software was transferred to the Zurich team, 9 time zones away, so they'll respond tomorrow at the earliest because there's no workday overlap. Bob might know about it, though, he's on the other side of campus - you can get there in 30 minutes on the campus shuttle.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#772

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:14 AM UTC

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it.

We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote suddenly and unexpectedly, without specific preparations, planning or training for that scenario, with employees in an especially stressing and taxing situation (pandemic uncertainty, childcare issues that wouldn't exist outside of a pandemic, with some people needing to work and care for children at the same time) and still be productive.

I'd say that's a rather strong result for remote work. Not proof that it's universally "better", because obviously things are complicated and the answer is always "it depends", but at least I'd take it as proof that it should probably be taken as the (or a) default option rather than an exotic alternative.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#773

Post by Hnrobert42 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:16 AM UTC

easytiger wrote: post #687

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should have an option to go fully remote, not be forced to do X number of days because reasons. This is the problem that remote work solves. It gives you some sense of autonomy so that you don't feel like a completely subservient slave. Also you said objectively it has not been proven but your subjective opinion is that it's better to be in office. What I will counter is that remote is almost certainly better…

Comparing highly paid office work with slavery is incredibly insulting.

You could either be genuinely insulted or just trawling the internet policing it for misused words. It’s hard to tell which is the case.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#774

Post by mdpye » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:25 AM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #713

com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

> I agree, but I am getting 1/8th of my waking hours back from commuting. What about all the people who already knew spending 2 hours commuting was a terrible use of our time before the pandemic, regardless of how much of a bigger house we could get? So we lived in dense cities, in walkable neighborhoods, where the office was a 15 minute walk away but so were restaurants, parks, grocery stores, and theaters? But part…

Surely you mean that the flat is for sleeping not living. They're too small for living, because all the living is done at the restaurants, bars, parks, theatres, offices and so on.

If that's the style you prefer, then you need a co-working space to replace the office, in the same way your place probably isn't big enough to entertain people for dinner so you use a restaurant. And it's too dense with the neighbours to throw a proper party with dancing, so you use the bars and clubs.

At least this is my understanding from having done a bit of both.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#775

Post by ChrisRR » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:26 AM UTC

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

It's like every study that "proves" that 4 day weeks are better. They never seem to extend any further than the initial honeymoon period before the novelty wears off

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#776

Post by MrDresden » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:26 AM UTC

Before the pandemic I would have firmly placed my self on the 'introvert' side of the spectrum, and if asked about the ability to work remote or from home would have said that would be my dream.

Through the last two years I have realized that I am closer to the middle of the spectrum, and enjoy (and in a way need) the thoughtful company of my peers much more than I realized.

However I also enjoy immensely the ability to work from home when I need to focus without meeting and distraction.

And here is my realization (which really isn't very profound); most offices, even those who are "designed" to be nice for the workers, are awful places for focus work. They are however fantastic for the exploratory phase of work, where bouncing ideas happens and the boundaries and limitation of the work haven't been discovered yet.

My dream now is the ability to work 2-3 days remote and the rest in the office. Thankfully the old money financial institution I work for allows this.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#777

Post by DrBazza » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:28 AM UTC

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

My experience of returning to the office a few times already? The same old thing.

People eating at their desks - we have a kitchen.

People having meetings and "quick chats" around their desk - we have many, many, meeting rooms.

People with other annoying habits (which I almost certainly have too) that make me sound OCD but... sniffing, throat clearing, drowning themselves in aftershave or perfume and so on.

Same awful 60min+ commute on a train.

Versus my home office with just me, quiet background music, and exactly zero distractions.

I'm glad all the multi-million salaried bosses that live a few minutes walk and have their own private offices want every one back...

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#778

Post by refurb » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:34 AM UTC

bjarneh wrote: post #715

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> I want to be able to quickly resolve any issues in person, not over voice call or slack.. Isn't this the main problem? I hate everyone who comes barging in and wants to "resolve issues" quickly. Not saying I love remote work, but I cannot stand working a place where people are "allowed" to disturb me. I don't even log into Slack/Teams/Skype or any of that nonsense; I don't even want to be disturbed in my virtual wo…

I get the need to have uninterrupted time, but if others are depending on you to get their job done, it's kinda dickish to complain about people being "allowed to disturb you".

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#779

Post by trophycase » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:36 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #446

munificent wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Agreed. We've proven that big tech companies can continue to be productive for up to two years going remote. I suspect that that doesn't generalize very well to being completely remote over the long term. It works well when you already have a bunch of personal relationships between teammates that were es…

Every single thread I see on this has this exact same comment. It's like a bot wrote it. Is it that hard to imagine that an onboarding experience remotely can actually be done well, or that you could actually make friends with people existing solely on zoom? I think people are making that assumption, just because it feels right or maybe because their own org is just throwing juniors by the wayside and hoping covid wi…

What if people don't want this tech pseudo-utopia? I understand where you're coming from and definitely agree that commuting is a problem but... we're already on the verge of a population crisis in developed nations, loneliness and alienation are at all time highs. I really really don't think that remote work is the utopia you imagine it to be. It's going to lead to more people who never leave their home or apartment, and maybe go days without interacting with people face to face.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#780

Post by raman162 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:37 AM UTC

Remote works has it's pros and cons. I love being able to be with family, no commute, a fully stocked kitchen with things I prefer to eat and the ability to take a nap when needed. The con for me is that I feel lonely throughout the day sometimes. The loneliness is great when I need to hit a flow state but other times it can be a bit sad.