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Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

reuters.com

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Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#721

Post by eru »

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Everyone on-site works. Everyone remotely also works to some extent.

What is really hard, is being a remote newcomer to an otherwise mostly on-site company.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#722

Post by Valakas_ »

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Yeah well, i don't want to be interrupted by a guy who thinks he can just come over tap me on the shoulder and I have to give him the attention he wants because he's too self-absorbed to understand other people might have a different way of working and have to accommodate to that guy's needs before their own.

"We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it."

No, that's not about it. We've also proven they're able to have record profits. Whether they would have even higher profits if it was fully office, it's another story, but saying all that is proven is that they won't crash is false and just shows you're emotionally invested in having people back in the office because you want them to.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#723

Post by Sateeshm »

I got called into an onsite meeting today because supposedly the brainstorming would be more productive (even though this project has been launched successfully fully remote). But the meeting room they booked only seats 5 (strict seating restrictions) so a couple of people are going to Zoom in and will obviously be left out of the physical whiteboarding. So, not only onsite is not adding anything of value, it is excluding people that otherwise would have been fully involved.

Looking at the comments here, i forsee an Onion headline "Ex convicts want to go back to prison because they can't make friends in regular society or miss the "structure" set by Warden."

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#724

Post by vladvasiliu »

deanCommie wrote: post #713
com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

> I agree, but I am getting 1/8th of my waking hours back from commuting. What about all the people who already knew spending 2 hours commuting was a terrible use of our time before the pandemic, regardless of how much of a bigger house we could get? So we lived in dense cities, in walkable neighborhoods, where the office was a 15 minute walk away but so were restaurants, parks, grocery stores, and theaters? But part…

You can probably still go back to the office even if your colleagues work from home. And if not, there are probably coworking spaces, or similar. Why must there be a one-size-fits-all situation?

Also, if WfH spreads, many of the people who made the same choice, getting a small apartment in a dense city for living only, will probably make a different choice now and move somewhere else. I know many people who did just that. I expect this will lower the prices of housing in cities, which means you could live in a bigger apartment if you wanted.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#726

Post by com2kid »

deanCommie wrote: post #713
com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

> I agree, but I am getting 1/8th of my waking hours back from commuting. What about all the people who already knew spending 2 hours commuting was a terrible use of our time before the pandemic, regardless of how much of a bigger house we could get? So we lived in dense cities, in walkable neighborhoods, where the office was a 15 minute walk away but so were restaurants, parks, grocery stores, and theaters? But part…

I made that deal then switched jobs and had an hour commute from my townhome.

WfH means not needing to buy for commute. Buy for lifestyle. Still want to live urban? Get a co-working space.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#727

Post by dragonelite »

com2kid wrote: post #673
librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

Yeah i joked with my team the next step will be asynchronous teams where teams could be spread over US and EU etc.

I love my solo lunchbreak walk just to empty my head or just think instead of having to talk or interact with team members.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#728

Post by rfks »

opportune wrote: post #210
adenozine wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily, there will be plenty of remote firms to scoop up all the engineers Google is about to hemorrhage. What a miserable work culture it must be for them to even have the nerve to declare this. Downvote away, I’ll be hiring some of them! ;-)

But Google let most people who asked to go remote, go remote. And said several times that if you haven’t asked to go remote yet, they’ll give you a 30 day notifications before you need to go back I hate threads like these because people will circle around generic talking points while missing all the nuance and context behind this actual decision, like allowing almost any SWE to go remote that asks, giving a heads up,…

At least until Q4 2021, Google also told large groups of employees not to bother applying for remote, as their request will automatically be denied due to a combination of role / team / organisation / tenure / office location / remote work location.

They may have reversed stance after I left, but I'm pretty sure the "15%" number cited is "15% of people that were considered eligible and had their manager support were declined."

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#729

Post by phplovesong »

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

I have found working remotely 98% of the time during covid has MASSIVELY improved my output.

1) I can start work 2 hours before i normally do. I can skip all the "getting up from bed and get ready". I literally work until noon in my underwear. Then i usually go for a 30min run and get a shower and lunch. I also save 2 hours per day commuting. I save a shitton of money on expensive lunches too.

2) The "can you check this, or could i have a list of that" annoyances have all but vanished. People (usually manager kinds) have actually had to dig up their own stuff and do some work themselves.

3) As i work MORE effective hours from home i sometimes take fridays off and just do my thing. I'm always way ahead of schedule.

I firmly believe the "in office nine-to-five" kind of work is in the past. It's a legacy way of working and it has proven to be very unproductive compared to remote work.

(PS. As most of you guys i'm in the software industry, so i cant speak of other fields of work. My points are purely my own discoveries and strictly related to software development)

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#730

Post by teaearlgraycold »

xanaxagoras wrote: post #284
dsl wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is vastly different in the bay area where public transit is a horrible mess and the freeways are all at 300% capacity. A friend who is a Googler is looking at a 30 minute commute to a GBus stop for a 90 minute ride each way. Going to the office is cutting productivity basically in half.

That 4 hours to and from work doesn't come out of "his time"? e.g. leave at 7 to get there by 9, leave at 6 to get home at 8.

Some Googlers might choose to live like that - but I don’t think they can make Googlers give up their entire lives to work.
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