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My Stripe Tax Story

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31–40 of 299 posts

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#31
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, why do we even need Payment Intent? Could be to support payment methods in Europe and countries other than the US?

I am referring here to Stripe Checkout. https://stripe.com/payments/checkout It's supposed to make payments easier with a Stripe-hosted payments page. However, creating a server-side Checkout session, and then getting line items from an order, is an unnecessarily convoluted series of requests.

You can use "expand" to get multiple queries into a single request, kind of like a SQL join. I don't know if this is exactly your use case, but when we get a Checkout session, and want the customer and purchase line items, it looks like this (using the Stripe Ruby library).

Stripe::Checkout::Session.retrieve({ id: session_id, expand: ['line_items', 'customer'] })

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#32

I'm not quite understanding the need to put them on blast here. Yes, they should have been more apologetic and they should certainly have escalated your ticket more quickly. But they made the changes you wanted seen: better documentation & better process, and reaching out to customers proactively when they see this problem.

I suspect, because I have been in a similar situation before, that the author is frustrated because the company first ignored/downplayed the significance of his concern, then blamed his issue on user error (without accepting responsibility), and then quietly modified their documentation and addressed the issue as if they had "just discovered it". When companies behave this way it feels like you're being gaslit, which…

Tech support gaslighting. Perfect encapsulation of the phenomenon. Someone make an urban dictionary entry.

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#33
I also had issues with stripe's automatic tax. We use stripe's subscriptions with free trials but don't collect credit card details up front, preferring to make sign up simple and low friction. Automatic tax is charged at 0.5% of each transaction, and apparently a trial ending is considered a transaction even if the user has no payment method, so we were hit with automatic tax fees for every trial end even if we received no money for them.

Overall my experience with stripe has been pretty negative and the large gap between my perception of the quality of their products, and the reality I discovered in actually using them has made me realize how much effort they put in to marketing to developers.

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#34
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect, because I have been in a similar situation before, that the author is frustrated because the company first ignored/downplayed the significance of his concern, then blamed his issue on user error (without accepting responsibility), and then quietly modified their documentation and addressed the issue as if they had "just discovered it". When companies behave this way it feels like you're being gaslit, which…

Tech support gaslighting. Perfect encapsulation of the phenomenon. Someone make an urban dictionary entry.

No, I didn't change anything. It just started working again.

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#35
Tangental side note, I googled profitwell (mentioned in the gist) and the first result is an ad for another competing company (that I won't mention) which includes "profitwell" in the title tag. Super shady!

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#36
post #11

He wasn't collecting address information for US customers, so the invoices hung in a pending state. He didn't check to make sure the integration was working correctly until a customer emailed him to ask why they hadn't been billed three months later, so there were a lot of invoices to clean up, which he apparently found to be very annoying.

I think he's correct that the failure mode was pretty awful. Silence isn't a great approach for failures in your cash flow. But, I agree with you that at least some of this can be chalked up to a botched integration, and that he probably could have reacted to bad signs more proactively (i.e. the drop in income). Still, the Stripe folks could have at least offered to help him collect the back payments, and (better yet…

I suspect there are liability concerns - admitting responsibility would be setting them up for damages.

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#37
post #12
post #3

(I work at Stripe.) This was a painful read. I'm sorry. We could have done a lot better. We're working on remediations now, and we're sending another, corrected email tonight with the updated CSV file of failed invoices as of March 1st.

Please consider a financial goodwill payment instead of only sending updated CSVs. You charge an extra fee for Stripe Tax; your paying product had an issue.

“Remediations” often refers to exactly that. Would suggest we wait for an update from the author to see how Stripe handles that, if at all.

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere it says the first million is free, so if you're small time it's effectively free

Still — charging 0.5% for a cron job?! [edit] I’m willing to be educated, please tell me how this isn’t Invoices with stored payments (which I’ve now seen has an additional fee too)

Making the cron job somebody else's problem has value in itself, though... see the cliched Dropbox example.

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#39
post #37
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please consider a financial goodwill payment instead of only sending updated CSVs. You charge an extra fee for Stripe Tax; your paying product had an issue.

“Remediations” often refers to exactly that. Would suggest we wait for an update from the author to see how Stripe handles that, if at all.

doesn't remediations imply accepting fault? wonder if there's legal grounds here. OP posting here could also be legal documentation in discovery

Re: My Stripe Tax Story

#40
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's correct that the failure mode was pretty awful. Silence isn't a great approach for failures in your cash flow. But, I agree with you that at least some of this can be chalked up to a botched integration, and that he probably could have reacted to bad signs more proactively (i.e. the drop in income). Still, the Stripe folks could have at least offered to help him collect the back payments, and (better yet…

I suspect there are liability concerns - admitting responsibility would be setting them up for damages.

If the truth makes them owe damages… then they rightfully owe the damages, which would make that silence willfully unethical. It’s wrong to try to avoid making things right especially if you think you have a legal obligation to make things right.

So sure, just do your absolute best to shirk your legal obligations. Most companies do. But most companies didn’t have Stripes’s reputation.

That said, I personally don’t think this is what Stripe is doing. I think they STILL aren’t 100% sure what the whole situation is and they don’t have anyone close to this who is willing and knowledgeable enough to call the shots any more quickly.

So it looks like a long investigation in parallel with the fix, and maybe some external feedback (this letter, some minor legal discussions with affected parties), will help provide the learnings and context necessary to actually understand what the effects were and what their responsibilities are.

They may not be able to make it right immediately even if they want to because they’re not quite sure what (precisely) they legally screwed up and how that affects each customer.

So, there’s a fine line between malice and local incompetency (which doesn’t even have to be massive incompetency! Someone who has 95% of all the experience they need for the role could get caught off guard in this situation). I’m sure stripe has the expertise it needs for this, it just might not have been in this group at the time.

Of course Stripe isn’t blameless as a company, they’re a huge financial company with more than enough resources to prevent, mitigate, and recompensate these kinds of accidents.

It’s understandable that things can fall through the cracks in such an ambitious tax engine.

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