Live data from Hacker News

Moving money internationally

bam.kalzumeus.com

81–90 of 230 posts

Re: Moving money internationally

#81
post #11

This is a great overview. They seem to be implying that banks that are otherwise not required to abide by sanctions (say, one located in China) can easily bypass SWIFT restrictions and transact with the affected Russian banks directly. How true is this part in practice? I'm going to ignore the last bit since that is tangential to the topic and ripe for starting a flame war.

> can easily bypass SWIFT restrictions and transact with the affected Russian banks directly “Easily” is the squishy bit here. If they’re settling in dollars, probably not, unless someone’s carting around paper dollars. (This has been done.) If they’re settling in rubles or yuan, for most definitions of “easily,” yes.

Why does settling in dollars make any difference? Like he said, if the SWIFT secure messaging service goes down, someone at a bank in Japan has the phone number of someone at a bank in New York and can "wire" money with a phone call instead of sending a SWIFT message. Wires will be orders of magnitude slower, but money is not frozen. And the real effect is that someone in Mumbai receiving a phone call from a Russian bank today will be especially careful to cross every T and dot every I.

Re: Moving money internationally

#82
post #77

For those saying that crypto is useless, here is a great use case. Authoritarian governments are currently preventing individuals from moving their property across borders. Crypto fixes that.

When most people say "crypto is useless", that is rarely about BTC being used as a currency, and is more about everything else in crypto (NFTs, web3, smart contracts, decentralized apps, ICOs, etc). The idea of a currency which has value because people give it value makes sense, regardless of how speculative it is.

People have been saying "crypto is useless" for wayyy longer than the time since NFTs were first popularized (which didn't become a mainstream term until 2020/2021).

Re: Moving money internationally

#83
post #77

For those saying that crypto is useless, here is a great use case. Authoritarian governments are currently preventing individuals from moving their property across borders. Crypto fixes that.

When most people say "crypto is useless", that is rarely about BTC being used as a currency, and is more about everything else in crypto (NFTs, web3, smart contracts, decentralized apps, ICOs, etc). The idea of a currency which has value because people give it value makes sense, regardless of how speculative it is.

[deleted]

Re: Moving money internationally

#84
post #77

For those saying that crypto is useless, here is a great use case. Authoritarian governments are currently preventing individuals from moving their property across borders. Crypto fixes that.

When most people say "crypto is useless", that is rarely about BTC being used as a currency, and is more about everything else in crypto (NFTs, web3, smart contracts, decentralized apps, ICOs, etc). The idea of a currency which has value because people give it value makes sense, regardless of how speculative it is.

> The idea of a currency which has value because people give it value makes sense

As a BTC proponent, I just want to say, I don't think this is what gives BTC value.

Re: Moving money internationally

#85
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When most people say "crypto is useless", that is rarely about BTC being used as a currency, and is more about everything else in crypto (NFTs, web3, smart contracts, decentralized apps, ICOs, etc). The idea of a currency which has value because people give it value makes sense, regardless of how speculative it is.

People have been saying "crypto is useless" for wayyy longer than the time since NFTs were first popularized (which didn't become a mainstream term until 2020/2021).

sure, but there are many other things in that list i made, right?

Re: Moving money internationally

#86
post #77

For those saying that crypto is useless, here is a great use case. Authoritarian governments are currently preventing individuals from moving their property across borders. Crypto fixes that.

When most people say "crypto is useless", that is rarely about BTC being used as a currency, and is more about everything else in crypto (NFTs, web3, smart contracts, decentralized apps, ICOs, etc). The idea of a currency which has value because people give it value makes sense, regardless of how speculative it is.

People pretty regularly say its useless in this sense as well. But even if it were true, as soon as you accept crypto is useful as money, DeFi smart contracts are pretty obviously useful as financial infrastructure on top of it.

Re: Moving money internationally

#87
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these factors, other than inflation, point to instability. With respect to inflation, that’s being directly addressed. Compared to every other currency, historical and extant, the major trading currencies of the day are highly stable across multiples of even the longest transaction time frames. They aren’t good long-term stores of value because that’s not what they’re built for.

> With respect to inflation, that’s being directly addressed. Please explain. I don’t understand how that’s true. In last night’s SOTU President Biden said inflation was mostly due to car prices or something equally silly. I don’t see any nation seriously addressing inflation which is officially 7.5% but I believe to be much higher for most.

I think there are multiple interest rate hikes planned for this year and the fed will cease marginal asset purchases (but not sell assets).

Re: Moving money internationally

#88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When most people say "crypto is useless", that is rarely about BTC being used as a currency, and is more about everything else in crypto (NFTs, web3, smart contracts, decentralized apps, ICOs, etc). The idea of a currency which has value because people give it value makes sense, regardless of how speculative it is.

> The idea of a currency which has value because people give it value makes sense As a BTC proponent, I just want to say, I don't think this is what gives BTC value.

Sorry, I was being a bit quick when I typed that out. I wasn't trying to define why it has value per-se, I was trying to make the distinction that someone who says "BTC is very speculative, therefore its too risky for me" (ie: a hater) is not the same as "it's useless".

Re: Moving money internationally

#89
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying "crypto is useless" for wayyy longer than the time since NFTs were first popularized (which didn't become a mainstream term until 2020/2021).

sure, but there are many other things in that list i made, right?

People were saying Bitcoin was useless when it was just Bitcoin and not anything you listed

Re: Moving money internationally

#90
post #77

For those saying that crypto is useless, here is a great use case. Authoritarian governments are currently preventing individuals from moving their property across borders. Crypto fixes that.

This seems like the very essence of money transfer without using the Western banking system, and it's a system that's been around for probably over a thousand years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala

The US Treasury department has a comprehensive-looking guide:

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/terrorist-illicit-f...

Post reply on HN