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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#991
post #988
post #948

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Troops entered kyiv, some 19 hours after you made your statement.

Should be ~35 hours after my claim now, the "overnight, next day, and next night" mentioned has now passed. It appears that heavy tanks have yet to even reach kyiv. Lighter vehicles and paratroopers have, but failed to seize the city overnight. The vast majority of Ukraine remains unoccupied, the takeover attempt is far from over like you claimed it would be.

I was wrong.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#992
post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

chernobyl to me personally just represents the corruption and total failure of communism Thank you for sharing this. It gives some weight and reality to what I claimed above: 'in the Slavic societies of post-Soviet eastern Europe - including Russians themselves - Chernobyl connotes the corruption and failure of the USSR.' I really cannot comprehend all the outrage at putin, when all the outraged countries literally h…

You are aware that after WW2, there were many wars, from korea and vietnam, to more recent ones, form iraq I&II, afghanistan, syria, libya etc.? If you forget about the balkan wars in the 1990s (because those were our, "internal" wars), the only other war here was the nato bombing of serbia (when i was born, we were still one country, yugoslavia), so the last outside agression in our places was caused by nato, ie. mo…

Statistically? Statistically Russia has killed more Slavs than any other nation and is presently running up the score.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO is an agreement to initiate MAD if needed. That's the point of NATO.

That is incorrect. NATO policy is "no-first use" for nuclear weapons. The member countries individually can make decision. Nothing in NATO mandates use of nuclear weapons, just that they join in common defense.

I think you misunderstood. "Initiating MAD" doesn't mean launching an attack. It means assuring that any full nuclear attack is met with a similar counter attack, ie. the "Mutual" part of "Assured Destruction". If you don't respond... there's no MAD.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#994
post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have US nukes stationed in Germany for that very reason. rather old tech nukes, but still. This gives Germany a seat at the NATO table about nuclear strategy. If push comes to shove, German Tornado fighter jets are going to carry those nukes into combat.

Just another cowardly work around. If we want to live under the protection of weapons of mass destruction and the means of a global nuclear holocaust than we should take on that responsibility ourselves instead of delegating it to the US, Britain and France.

Every NATO country, especially those on the eastern flank should be given their nukes, without anyone knowing it. Heck, even Finland. This is the best thing that could be done for peace in Europe. Imagine Russia attacking Finland, and they say, we have nukes, we haven't told you so. Step back or we will blow St Petersburg to dust. Nothing protects a country like nukes, NATO, you never know how it works out in practice. Denuclearizing was only in favor of the super powers that would not denecluarize - and is it really in their favor, certainly half of Europe being destroyed is not in US favor. And the drawbacks are really small. Look at North Korea, there has been some fear around it but nothing happened so far. In the end of the day, everyone wants to live. And if some small nuclear state went insane, it would not have the arsenal needed to destroy the world anyway and could be neutralized quickly by other nuclear states. The biggest problem is centralization of power, it should never be centralized. It should be distributed among independent states.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#995
post #975
post #955

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to an earlier comment I made, if Norther Cyprus had more than 350k people in it, the world would probably care more. So I agree you’re right, but I also hope you agree that Ukraine is very different.

Population size doesn’t matter. What only matters is strong army willing to repeal aggressor. What could help Ukraine is that Russian soldiers don’t want to fight for Putin and oligarchs.

You think it's similarly difficult to annex a land of 300k and a land of 44m? Ok.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#996
post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Germany was going to increase their dependence on Russian gas with NS2 instead of lowering it is despicable and incredibly short sighted. Same country which is going nuclear free. Complete morons.

Don't worry, until now EU member states were blissfully ignoring or putting their NATO obligations on the back burner. Hence the prodigious dependency on Russian gas. Also, the greens hold considerable sway in large parts of Western Europe and the Nordic countries, so nuclear became a dirty word. I think this debacle will jolt the the EU members' leadership out of its complacency, and there will be a renewed focus on…

> Which country is going nuclear free?

Germany is intending to, once their current plants are decommissioned.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#997
post #110
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so options are somewhat limited. Russia intends to use Chernobyl as a deterrent to NATO, according to the report (how, I do not know). It is also not straightforward to put a NATO ally right on Russia's vulnerable flank (it's endless plains and flat ground from Ukraine to Moscow, which has always been a source of strategic vulnerability for Moscow), so admitting Ukraine to NATO was ne…

> ... including neutral Finland and Sweden deciding to join NATO, perhaps Georgia also. Did you hear evidence of that anywhere or is that just wild speculation?

Seems Finland is going to seriously consider it now.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#999

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a giant cooling system dug underneath the reactor after the accident takes water from a nearby river and pumps it out to a cooling pond where it evaporates. This keeps the concrete from melting and the core contained. Here is a report from the International Atomic Energy Agency: https://www-pub.iaea.org/iaeameetings/IEM4/29Jan/Voitsekhovy... (Poor english but good diagrams)

Nothing in that document describes a planetary-scale disaster.

The second link, posted at the same time, does.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#1000

I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…

"existence of your own civilization" is a strong statement. At face value they just want to conquer back half of Europe. Not to send millions across our souther border. Not to kill any Americans. Not to rape their women. Not to turn their sons into homosexuals. Not even compete for jobs with Americans or abuse their welfare system. So from our point of view it's a European problem. A quick reminder - they have 500M p…

> Not to..

At face value? like how they promised to not invade Ukraine in exchange for their nukes?

> Not to turn their sons into homosexuals

What?!?

> Do you see other Europeans even trying?

Putin has threatened retaliation against any intervention, including the threat of nukes - "even trying" isn't an option, once you're in you may be all in.

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