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Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

reuters.com

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Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#141

Post by rfreiberger »

floren wrote: post #71

A few months back I was talking to a manager at [huge established software company]. He was making the case that obviously anyone who has moved away from the Bay Area should have their pay cut. He personally has not been in the office for a single day since spring 2020, but since he telecommutes from Berkeley rather than Omaha, he sees no reason to cut his own pay. Later that same day I spoke to someone who's managin…

Just speculating but I would guess that's a reason for asking people back in the office. If you're getting paid the same amount as an engineer in the Bay Area but living South Dakota, I'm sure this causes some alarm for the company. We can't force a pay cut but what if we require physical presence a few times a week.

I'm still living in the Bay Area due to family but that's one of the reasons why we haven't looked seriously about moving. I felt like the WFH train was going to stop eventually.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#142

Post by kccqzy »

Johnny555 wrote: post #59
ASinclair wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's based on where you work. Though you can work remote from the same city as your current office and have no pay difference.

Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? What's the limit? Living in Pleasanton is cheaper than living in Mountain View, but still commutable. Living in Tracy is cheaper still and people still commute to the Bay Area from there. Living in Fresno or Sacramento is even cheaper and farther but still some people will do that commute daily.

There was an internal tool that simulated your pay change when you move. For example, if your office is in Santa Clara county but you move to Santa Cruz county the pay will drop by a lot. But if you move from Santa Clara county to San Mateo county there's no change at all.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#143

Post by dsl »

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> I personally prefer a company where everyone's on site. I want to be able to quickly resolve any issues in person, not over voice call or slack

That works for companies with less than 100 engineers. Everyone seems to have forgotten the good ol days where you had in person meetings and had to dial in half the team from Europe or include Fred who is working from home.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#144

Post by [deleted] »

ejb999 wrote: post #111

I have been fully remote my entire career (several decades), in fact in 30+ years have never been on site anywhere for more than 2 weeks total. Wouldn't have it any other way. But as a counter-point, seeing a whole bunch of people who were never remote before, how little work they are actually doing, it is no surprise to me that a lot of employers are going to start forcing - to the extent possible - employees back i…

[deleted]

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#145

Post by MiddleEndian »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #3

Do Googlers mind working in the office much? They get plenty of free meals/snacks/beverages, great equipment, and great salary allowing them to live close to the office and pay for childcare if needed. I can't see the rest of the industry moving in the direction of returning to the office, because they don't have these things.

Having worked at Google (albeit at a satellite office), those perks are nice, but working from home (my current situation) is a much much nicer perk.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#146

Post by ghaff »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #116

We've just done a survey at work to talk about about attitudes to returning to work. The results were basically that 95% of people are happy with work from home but want more social gatherings. Most people would be happy with visiting the office once every two weeks. I expected a small fraction to be extremely pro return to office but actually these didn't appear at all in our survey. What we did have is a couple of…

That seems like a high number. Different external surveys I've seen tend to show about 20% wanting to come in five days with a permanent desk, about the same (or a bit more) fully remote, and the rest 2 or 3 days. That's not just developers though.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#147

Post by iratewizard »

paxys wrote: post #107
floren wrote: post #71

A few months back I was talking to a manager at [huge established software company]. He was making the case that obviously anyone who has moved away from the Bay Area should have their pay cut. He personally has not been in the office for a single day since spring 2020, but since he telecommutes from Berkeley rather than Omaha, he sees no reason to cut his own pay. Later that same day I spoke to someone who's managin…

Both engineers and managers at big tech companies can get by working 2 hours a day. And remote vs on-site doesn't affect that. This has been true since well before WFH. As for the location-based pay part, I bet none of the people who were furious about getting "adjusted" after moving out of the Bay Area ever complained about their colleagues in Bangalore working the same amount as them and making 1/5 as much.

The people from Bangalore only got the job because they are willing to work for that wage and be a cost cutting center. You think executives offshore to the 3rd world because that's where the quality is?

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#148

Post by ejb999 »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #136
ejb999 wrote: post #111

I have been fully remote my entire career (several decades), in fact in 30+ years have never been on site anywhere for more than 2 weeks total. Wouldn't have it any other way. But as a counter-point, seeing a whole bunch of people who were never remote before, how little work they are actually doing, it is no surprise to me that a lot of employers are going to start forcing - to the extent possible - employees back i…

> disappear for days at a time, miss meetings for weeks at a time How is this not an immediately fireable offense? At least at the point of reestablishing contact where a doctor’s note or equivalent excuse can’t be furnished…

I absolutely agree - and if it was upto me, they would be gone already - but when the manager is also one of those 'do as little as I can' types of people, they don't really want to open that particular can of worms.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#149

Post by amyjess »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #25
nix0n wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Silicon Valley, it is possible to live close to the office without a FAANG level salary. Beverages and snacks also are not that rare.

Well, you'd have to be outside of most big cities. Even on a tech salary, living near an office in central London isn't affordable. Not unless you're flat sharing which is basically mutually exclusive with having a family.

Dallas is pretty fine. For a few years, I lived within a 10-15 minute drive to my office on a $60k salary. Inner-ring suburb and not downtown, but most of the offices here are in the inner-ring suburbs.

(and if that sounds low, don't worry: I now make much more and work for a company that doesn't even have offices in my time zone)

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#150

Post by eyelidlessness »

jbay808 wrote: post #124
floren wrote: post #71

A few months back I was talking to a manager at [huge established software company]. He was making the case that obviously anyone who has moved away from the Bay Area should have their pay cut. He personally has not been in the office for a single day since spring 2020, but since he telecommutes from Berkeley rather than Omaha, he sees no reason to cut his own pay. Later that same day I spoke to someone who's managin…

Location is one factor in cost of living, but there are a lot of others too: the type of car you drive (if you drive a car), the quality of food you buy/coffee you drink/restaurants you frequent, the number of kids you have, the schools they go to, etc. Should companies adjust compensation according to these variables too, or just city?

Not that I’m advocating for location based comp for remote workers—I think it’s a complex issue and don’t feel especially confident leaning either way—but assessing cost of living based on location is more of an assessment of potential cost not actual. It would be more analogous to include the price of available goods/services, not which ones are consumed. The idea behind cost of living comp adjustments is to compensate relative to the value of money, not relative to how one uses that value.
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