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Not everyone should meditate

joshcsimmons.com

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Re: Not everyone should meditate

#21

Post by joshcsimmons »

carterschonwald wrote: post #4

Theres actually some evidence (or a least a lot of pubmed papers) that touch on how for certain at risk populations, meditation can increase the probability of an episode of psychosis! (so anyone who has any family history of schizophrenia or other things in the same space, really need to be careful of meditation and friends) see these google scholar results for more info: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=meditat…

Wow - thanks for posting. Had seem some brief research about it before but not this much. This really should be a larger part of the cultural conversation around meditation.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#22

Post by kragen »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #10
omnicognate wrote: post #3

There are different ways of meditating. If you're hallucinating blue, humming God balls you're certainly not doing what I do. I think what I do would probably be beneficial for most people. I'd hesitate to say all.

Yeah, I don't think too many people are accidentally going to stumble upon the sort of meditation-induced psychosis talked about in the post using Headspace or Waking Up to try and reclaim some presence in their thoughts. They just get you to sit there, consciously realize that thoughts come from nowhere, and notice that you can merely discard them. After a year of the Waking Up app, it's just a practical way to regr…

I think it's more a question of dose. If you're meditating 20 minutes a day for three years you probably won't see a big effect. If you're meditating 12 hours for a day for 10 years, you're going to encounter a lot of stuff that could get labeled "psychosis" by people who don't know about it. And, it may be permanent. What kind of meditation you're doing will affect what you encounter and how you deal with it, but none of the paths will remain just "a practical way to reground [your]self."

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#23

Post by mahathu »

skilled wrote: post #20

This is a great perspective. I know what the author means with it, too. I spent 5 years in daily meditation practice (twice a day for 20 minutes) and it completely altered my state of mind. I was a naturally introverted person when I started, though I believe that meditation really stepped it up a notch for me. The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends y…

What sort of meditation practice did you do?

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#24

Post by iLoveOncall »

skilled wrote: post #20

This is a great perspective. I know what the author means with it, too. I spent 5 years in daily meditation practice (twice a day for 20 minutes) and it completely altered my state of mind. I was a naturally introverted person when I started, though I believe that meditation really stepped it up a notch for me. The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends y…

> The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends your life experience. It is not in human nature to fight with the inner workings of your own psychology, and for me - meditation really amplified all that I had been trough or was going through at the time.

I really don't understand why the world just accepts that meditation as a whole is not just another version of snake oil.

All this reads as absolute bullshit to me, as has done everything else I've ever read about meditation.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#25

Post by kragen »

beebeepka wrote: post #15

I would like to at least try to meditate but I am not calm person. Not at all. Even coffee and green tea kick my nervous system into overdrive, so 8 don't consume them. What could possibly make meditation accessible to a person like me?

Maybe guidance from a good teacher, patience with yourself, and persistence (continuing to practice even when you're frustrated with your lack of progress). Meditation isn't for everyone but nothing you have said suggests that it isn't for you.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#26

Post by cardanome »

njacobs5074 wrote: post #5

I’ve meditated on and off for a few decades and have only ever experienced a sense of calm and clarity. Is the author’s experience common for other people?

Not exactly but I find meditation really "painful".

I am more of the anxious side of things and being super focused on myself is very stressful. Sure I feel calmer afterwards but the process feels like a cold shower in winter.

The only times I found meditation enjoyable is in a group setting. Normally I am quite introverted and prefer to do most activities alone but here it is reversed.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#27

Post by [deleted] »

yldedly wrote: post #14
njacobs5074 wrote: post #5

I’ve meditated on and off for a few decades and have only ever experienced a sense of calm and clarity. Is the author’s experience common for other people?

From personal experience and what I've read, there's a clear dose response relationship. If you meditate enough, especially if do a lot of insight (vipassana) meditation without doing much concentration (samatha) or Metta meditation, you will begin to deconstruct yourself. That's what it does. Often you will find a new, and better way to relate to your conscious experience, but sometimes you break things and they don…

[deleted]

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#28

Post by oh_sigh »

carterschonwald wrote: post #4

Theres actually some evidence (or a least a lot of pubmed papers) that touch on how for certain at risk populations, meditation can increase the probability of an episode of psychosis! (so anyone who has any family history of schizophrenia or other things in the same space, really need to be careful of meditation and friends) see these google scholar results for more info: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=meditat…

The first link is a single male patient who claims meditation provoked his psychosis. Other people suffering from psychosis have blamed, lets see, off the top of my head - wifi signals, chemtrails, their gang stalkers, fluoride, the CIA, aliens, lizard-men, etc. Is there any reason to believe a random psychotic person when they make a claim about meditation, versus when they make the claim about wifi signals?

The case analysis a few results later find a total of 28 people in the literature who have made the claim, with 14 of them having precipitating factors such as "like insomnia, lack of food intake, history of mental illness, stress, and psychoactive substance use", which almost certainly have a much larger effect on psychosis than...sitting still and thinking a certain way. If I had a heart attack while meditating, I don't think I would jump to the conclusion that meditation is dangerous for people with heart conditions.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#29

Post by skilled »

mahathu wrote: post #23
skilled wrote: post #20

This is a great perspective. I know what the author means with it, too. I spent 5 years in daily meditation practice (twice a day for 20 minutes) and it completely altered my state of mind. I was a naturally introverted person when I started, though I believe that meditation really stepped it up a notch for me. The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends y…

What sort of meditation practice did you do?

I was never initiated or dedicated myself to a specific practice. I can say today it was a mix of mindfulness and practical Vipassana.

I think one of the things people complain about when it comes to meditation is concentration. I was not one of those people. It came extremely natural to me.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#30

Post by virtualwhys »

njacobs5074 wrote: post #5

I’ve meditated on and off for a few decades and have only ever experienced a sense of calm and clarity. Is the author’s experience common for other people?

Same.

Are you able to clearly manifest an image of anything in your mind's eye? If not then you might have aphantasia (i.e. "third eye blind").

When I was younger I sat several Vipisana and Zen retreats across multiple traditions. While it changed me in the sense that I became far less impulsive and more grounded, there was never anything mystical about the experiences, just periods of calm and quiet, like the internal world had slowed way down.

But that's unusual, I suspect most who seriously take up meditation do indeed have full blown psychedelic experiences (thus the author's reference to LSD), not long after taking up practice, and certainly within the first week long retreat or two.

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