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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#531

Post by fdgsdfogijq »

oceanghost wrote: post #143
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #47

In a well known big tech company (FAANG), I have seen many many examples of a whole layer of management from the same caste. So like under one director, every senior manager will have been from the same part of India. Sometimes this will extend to another layer of managers below them. Behind the scenes, there is a strong communication network that is often not caught or shown in org charts. This will include high ran…

I think it extends beyond Indian folks. I once worked at a company where, Manufacturing engineers were overwhelmingly Vietnamese. Safety staff was Chinese, Engineering was mostly white, and the machine shop was entirely Hispanic. In each case the manager of the department was of the aforementioned race. There was also a son of a bitch who was an aggressive baptist. He though I was a baptist because I had dated a bapt…

It really doesnt to the same degree. People claiming otherwise are trying to hide a very real problem

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#532

Post by Aurelius3 »

tomrod wrote: post #511
Aurelius3 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this perspective. Aren't European Americans similarly stripped of there European heritage as time goes on in the new world? Thus the word white in america means "of european origin living in america" the same way black means "of african origin living in america". I think it is really schizophrenic to say that black culture exists but white culture does not seeing as both terms represent a new world…

> I don't understand this perspective. The first few seconds of the linked video cover this. I encourage you to watch it. Effectively, there is not a strong equivalence between the categorization of white vs. black in terms of origin. Whites typically weren't forced to move to North America and have their home cultures stripped from them through generations of slavery. This is why you find things like German Heritage…

I thank you for your reply and I would like to address your points.

As someone who is a first generation immigrant to the new world who went back to the old country I disagree with the idea that whites in the new world have specific regional/cultural European roots. They are far detached and most of the examples you mention are merely imitations or money grab celebrations. With genetic testing it is possible to locate where they originate from approximately, same with African originators, but I really don't see how this origin point means anything after hundreds of years across the Atlantic. A white American calling themselves 1/8 irish, 3/8 italian, and 4/8 french, is as ridiculous in my mind as an African American calling themselves 1/8 kenyan, 3/8 angolan, and 4/8 congolese. I agree with you that the African Americans are treated as lesser in the American society, but in many ways they have way more in common with the average white American then they do with the very diverse and foreign "black cultures". And likewise for the white Americans with the diverse and foreign "white cultures". My point is that if you believe in the existence of one, then the existence of the other comes as well, alternatively we could do away with the separation between black and white in America altogether and consider the people there to just be Americans, as people who left the old world for opportunity in the new world, which imo is where American society is trending towards overall (But will still take a long time and a lot of effort to achieve).

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#533

Post by vmception »

unmole wrote: post #512
vmception wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After hearing their name, dialect and seeing their mannerisms, yes, I can tell. Several other comments mentioned there is an overrepresentation of specific groups from India, within the US, so I am attuned to recognize that group as "Indian heritage". These things are rarely as simple as looking at someone visually from afar or in a lineup and making a complete decision.

> After hearing their name, dialect and seeing their mannerisms So, you can confidently tell a Bengali Indian from a Bangladeshi? Or a Madhesi from a Bihari? An Indian Gurkha from a Nepali? I respectfully call BS.

> overrepresentation of specific groups from India, within the US, so I am attuned to recognize that group as "Indian heritage"

the ambiguity is practically nonexistent in the US so the circumstance wouldn't come up

I acknowledged that

You’re not going to get more than that

(unless I’m wrong about how represented those other groups are, that could be an insightful conversation I’m willing to have)

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#535

Post by throwaway_281 »

aatharuv wrote: post #525
throwaway_281 wrote: post #366

I would like non-Indian people to know that the caste problem is not uniformly distributed throughout India. In cities like Kolkata, Chennai, and Mumbai- the problem is non-existent. The problem is much more rampant in Northern parts of India. This region is the American south without the good parts. This region ranks the highest in the country for foeticide of girl children. Because the society is deeply patriarchal…

One comment -- in India, there is theoretically the concept of the "creamy layer", sufficiently rich individuals cannot benefit from reservations, though in practice I don't know how well that is implemented. Another thing is that casteism is _not_ limited to Hinduism in India. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Look at the matrimonial sections of Indian newspapers -- there are Christians who explicitly look for…

"Creamy layer" only applies to OBCs and not SCs.

SCs have no ceiling of income to qualify for benefits.

I know about casteism in other religions. But the scale is nowhere near to that of Hinduism.

And yes, even for the OBCs, it is very badly implemented.

Only people on salary (government or private) face restriction since they can't fake income. I know plenty business owners and farmer who are well above the ceiling but continue to take benefits.

OBC benefits are not much anyway. Because there are too many people in that class.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#537

Post by throwaway_281 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #468
throwaway_281 wrote: post #366

I would like non-Indian people to know that the caste problem is not uniformly distributed throughout India. In cities like Kolkata, Chennai, and Mumbai- the problem is non-existent. The problem is much more rampant in Northern parts of India. This region is the American south without the good parts. This region ranks the highest in the country for foeticide of girl children. Because the society is deeply patriarchal…

It seems misleading to call Smriti "scripture" in the sense that's understood in the West. They're texts/literature connected to religion in some loose sense but encompass all sorts of subjects, are full of contradictory claims, and were never seen as exempt from criticism and revision, particularly over long spans of time and changing social customs. Nobody here is denying that some Hindus have historically endorsed…

No it is not.

Then Ramayana and Mahabharata aren't scriptures, too.

Smritis are definitely scripture.

And yes, there were dissenters.

And no, not of only some Hindus, the casteism was systematic.

I have reletives in a small town, and my uncle remembers that in every wedding receptions and funerals brahmins ate first and no one else was allowed to eat together with them.

Only after brahmins had finished, people from other castes could begin eating.

This is Bengal, and only 50 years ago and less.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#538

Post by sulam »

gerdesj wrote: post #68
Sebguer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not implying that the Indian caste system originated in American slavery, they're stating that America also has a caste system.

Perhaps class system is a better term. The terms nearly mean the same thing but not quite. I think the caste system is closer in origin to the societal structure in the feudal system that was common in medieval Europe, than the modern class system.

Class specifically can be changed, whereas caste cannot. You can dress better, pronounce words in an upper class style, and live in a better neighborhood but still be treated like you need to use the back door to enter your own office because of the color of your skin.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#539

Post by intrasight »

flat-pluto wrote: post #326
intrasight wrote: post #314

I don't "hide" the fact that I am Italian (couldn't if I had my mom's maiden name) but nor do I tell anyone - because a) they don't need to know and b) it's of no relevance. Honest question: why is it different with caste? Rather than "hide" it, why not have it a non-thing?

This is a false equivalence though. Ideally it would be a non-thing. It has been a part of Indian society for a very long time, going back millennia, but it was codified in its modern form by the British. For instance: "Nicholas Dirks has argued that Indian caste as we know it today is a modern phenomenon as caste was fundamentally transformed by British colonial rule. According to Dirks, before colonial rule caste a…

This is all in the context of the USA.

My question is why would you be asked or, if asked, tell your caste?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#540

Post by int_19h »

berdario wrote: post #467
int_19h wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't a common way to define it. The colloquial definition of racism is still racial prejudice, regardless of power. This is also the way it was used historically - both W.E.B. DuBois and MLK referred to "black racists", for example. It was redefined to "... + power" after the Civil Rights Era, but it didn't really catch up outside of the more academic social justice circles.

About MLK, I presume you're referring to this quote: "We must never substitute a doctrine of Black supremacy for white supremacy" That's fair, but we're talking about ensuring that the interview process is not discriminatory. I.e. having some extra safeguards for marginalized people (safeguards which are not needed for those in power), a special process that you could maybe define akin to "positive discrimination" vs…

Affirmative action in general does not involve prejudice, although some particular instances of it do.
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