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I just wish it'd go away entirely. I'm not a dev. But an admin. And I despise supporting or troubleshooting Java applications. Unfortunately that's my life these days. From an admin perspective, python, php, hell.. Even ruby. All fine. But Java is a nightmare.
Curious about what's so hard about Java.
Java Swing still lets you make native-looking-and-feeling apps (with some care). I don't know of any new GUI frameworks that let you do the same. I consider this a killer-feature of the framework. It's also very fast, backed by OpenGL and DirectX. It also ships with source code and isn't declarative, so it's trivial to step into as a means to debug why your code isn't working.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you explain why it's so hard? I've had a lot better luck running Java apps than Python.
I am not admin, but kind of manage non-prod servers. One problem with Java is that a lot of things are half-done. If it totally relied on OS it would have worked, or if Java solution was thorough it would have worked. SSL management and Java app monitoring with tools like jconsole comes to mind. But others might have different annoyances. It is working on one server and then broke on a newly built server apparently d…
>> This history is neither meant to be comprehensive, nor necessarily chronological. I’m recounting my own journey through the Java desktop landscape, and it will be biased towards Mac This paragraph should really be right in the beginning of the post, instead of in the conclusion.
Not to mention Sun's failure with their java based OS and its own eventual collapse.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB891383840659892000
Java is still a major language worth learning, but yeah, it never lived up to its hype. When I was young, I remember asking in one of the forums whether I should learn Java or C#, perl or python. The answers were overwhelmingly java and perl. So java and perl were the first two languages I learned on my own. No regrets, but man the internet at the turn of the century/millenia really got that spectacularly wrong.
As a C# developer I remember the first time I developed a GUI java application. In C# you have a code-behind file with your own code and event handlers, and a "designer file" with the generated code to set-up the GUI itself. Then I used Netbeans for a Java app, and the code file contained weird sections of artificially not editable code, and event handlers were so much more complex and cumbersome - with inner classes…
As a C# developer I remember the first time I developed a GUI java application. In C# you have a code-behind file with your own code and event handlers, and a "designer file" with the generated code to set-up the GUI itself. Then I used Netbeans for a Java app, and the code file contained weird sections of artificially not editable code, and event handlers were so much more complex and cumbersome - with inner classes…
Being years late to the party and basically creating a (back then) Windows-only copy of Java, it's quite normal that they managed to do a few things better.
Regarding UI editors: back in the days IntelliJ was already amazing and allowed to hide all that boilerplate Java code. This boilerplate code was still there, but hidden by the IDE.
I just wish it'd go away entirely. I'm not a dev. But an admin. And I despise supporting or troubleshooting Java applications. Unfortunately that's my life these days. From an admin perspective, python, php, hell.. Even ruby. All fine. But Java is a nightmare.
Working on a successful Java shop with thousands of deployments per month. Curious about what's so hard about Java.
Java Swing still lets you make native-looking-and-feeling apps (with some care). I don't know of any new GUI frameworks that let you do the same. I consider this a killer-feature of the framework. It's also very fast, backed by OpenGL and DirectX. It also ships with source code and isn't declarative, so it's trivial to step into as a means to debug why your code isn't working.
> native-looking-and-feeling apps Who are you kidding? > (with some care) No. Even if you were to give it more care than required to rewrite the GUI natively in each major platform, you still wouldn't be close. Look, I get it, there are plenty of applications where a bit of clunk in the GUI is beneath other things on the priority list. That's fine. But the number of java devs who think clobbering together a few nativ…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you explain why it's so hard? I've had a lot better luck running Java apps than Python.
Not the parent but: Java has a long tradition of reimplementing things in Java rather than relying on system libraries. Everything from OpenSSL to tzinfo to libpng has its own Java implementation, entirely separate from anything else on the system.
Er, that’s kind of the point of the Java Virtual Machine… It keeps you from tying your application to a particular system architecture.
I’ve noticed that JVM administration tends to fall into the “no man’s land” between devs and admins: Devs figure that the Admins will take care of it, and Admins are annoyed that they need to use a separate set of tools to admin the Java apps (and are not eager to learn them.)