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What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

reuters.com

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Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#91

Post by brightball »

mstipetic wrote: post #78
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

They are afraid of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system a very good technology that the Soviet Union developed which punches above its weight in situations like the Ukraine war because the mobile radars are hard to suppress with these methods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Enemy_Air_Defen... I have seen a huge number of Buks in various conditions in video footage from the war, one of them wa…

I always wonder how they developed things like that in the 70s. Right now I don’t know a single engineer that could even know how to begin to develop a system like that. I feel like most of them would try and throw a neural net at the problem and call it a day.

I talked to a guy a few weeks ago who worked for a company that developed a guidance system before GPS that used stars like a sextant to navigate.

Pretty crazy to think about.

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#92

Post by anramon »

blast wrote: post #70
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

They are afraid of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system a very good technology that the Soviet Union developed which punches above its weight in situations like the Ukraine war because the mobile radars are hard to suppress with these methods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Enemy_Air_Defen... I have seen a huge number of Buks in various conditions in video footage from the war, one of them wa…

If that is the case, why would officials and experts be "stumped"? This seems like the obvious explanation.

Right now an "expert" is whoever says something that is aligned with media retoric.

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#93

Post by [deleted] »

riku_iki wrote: post #60
0000011111 wrote: post #9

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Air_Force#2021%E2%80%9... In terms of numbers according to the Wikipedia article they have about 650 air planes and ~300 helicopter's. Thats a solid fighting force for a relatively small country. Russia as lots of tools - missiles and such that are good at destroying buildings. The problems in that Putin understands that the cities in Ukraine have value. He is trying to take them…

> they have about 650 air planes and ~300 helicopter's. the question is how many of them are operational.

[deleted]

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#94

Post by ALittleLight »

boc wrote: post #50

I think we need to consider the possibility that much of the Russian army only existed on paper, and that the true strength was overinflated by trickling up good news only throughout all ranks of the military.[1] Readiness was overstated. Equipment was overstated. Training was for parades, not combat. Everyone in the Russian military had assumed they'd never actually fight a real war, so they could grift and sell rat…

Another part of this is US intelligence sources have an incentive to overstate Russia's strength. A strong scary Russia better justifies American military spending.

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#96

Post by jihadjihad »

brightball wrote: post #91
mstipetic wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder how they developed things like that in the 70s. Right now I don’t know a single engineer that could even know how to begin to develop a system like that. I feel like most of them would try and throw a neural net at the problem and call it a day.

I talked to a guy a few weeks ago who worked for a company that developed a guidance system before GPS that used stars like a sextant to navigate. Pretty crazy to think about.

Something in that vein that has always amazed me, even though its performance in the field left something to be desired, is the Norden bombsight [0].

"The Norden [used] an analog computer that continuously recalculated the bomb's impact point based on changing flight conditions, and an autopilot that reacted quickly and accurately to changes in the wind or other effects."

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norden_bombsight

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#97

Post by mywittyname »

jcranmer wrote: post #54
boc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Japanese surrender in WWII due to sustained strategic bombing of civilian cities without a single troop landing in mainland Japan is a clear contradiction to this take.

It's not a clear contradiction; it's one of only two cases that are arguable (the other one being NATO bombing of Serbia during the dissolution of Yugoslavia). It's noted that it's not clear how much the atomic bombings influenced the decision to surrender, versus the near-simultaneous declaration of war by the USSR on Japan. Furthermore, by the time Japan surrendered, it was clear that Japan had already thoroughly l…

> It's noted that it's not clear how much the atomic bombings influenced the decision to surrender,

My understanding is that communications between Hirohito and Stalin indicate that Japan was attempting to begin negotiation of a total surrender after Midway and that Truman's diary eludes to this moment. The main argument I've seen to contradict this is that they don't believe Japan wasn't actually going to accept a full surrender at this point.

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#98

Post by watwut »

Banana699 wrote: post #86
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slav fellowship does not work in wars. No fellowship works in wars. Historically combatants have treated their opponents differently based on race and existing cultural attitudes. Don't see why it would be any different this time around.

>Historically combatants have treated their opponents differently based on race and existing cultural attitudes Huh? when have that ever been true? European religious wars have been huge bloodsheds, communist regimes routinely genocided their own (often quite homogenous) populations, Lebanon's civil war saw neighbors shooting at each other. The truth of the matter is : when people want to fight, they will find someth…

Technically, this was actually true in WWII. German army behavior in west was horrible, in east much much worst. Their behavior toward gypsies was super bad. And their behavior towards Jews worst of the worst.

But the range there is from "super bad" to "genocidal", so.

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#99

Post by newaccount2021 »

slavoingilizov wrote: post #13

Many conflicting viewpoints here. Sure, there's been less of a push from Russia than everyone expected, but it's not like Ukraine controls the sky either. Are Ukranians really still flying? If that was the case, the mentioned 40-mile convoy heading to Kiev would have been hit by now, no? Russians driving vehicles bumper to bumper shows VERY strong confidence that they own the sky, so things might not be as rosy for U…

No post body was provided.

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#100

Post by demadog »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #73

I think part of why Russia looks so inept is because everyone is comparing against the US. However, the US military has the finest logistic operations in the world. Also, there is no substitute for fighting an actual enemy. Part of the reason the US (especial Air Force and Naval Aviation) is so good is that they have actually been fighting. From Libya(Reagan), Gulf War I, Serbia, Gulf War II, Afghanistan, Libya (Obam…

I have this sad, but likely true, theory that the U.S. needs to always be involved in a war to stay in practice and iron out the kinks for bigger wars.

I say this as a medium-big supporter of the US military.

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