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No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

en.interfax.com.ua

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Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#81

Post by koonsolo »

fuoqi wrote: post #74
largbae wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have a different angle than most here. I'm not sure I can join you in rationalizing an invading army but I believe in your right to say what you want, and value hearing from all sides. Can you share any sources or background on your point of view?

How do I rationalize it? I simply stated easy observations, which are not obvious to those who mostly form opinion based on the extremely active propaganda. While I have zero sympathy for the post-2014 Ukrainian regime (it's really far from being a cute little democracy as portrayed by the Western media) and I am fed up with the Western hypocrisy (simply compare the number of invaded countries and how those invasions…

> zero sympathy for the post-2014 Ukrainian regime

Why? 72% of votes went to Zelenskyy in the last election. What is your problem with that?

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#82

Post by thinkingemote »

the_duke wrote: post #29
brabel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, but you know those are fake, right?

There are countless images and videos on Telegram/Twitter of abandoned and captured Russian vehicles, including many not used by Ukrainian forces. Some of them are surely staged for Psyops, but by sheer volume plenty of them must be authentic.

One can examine each image and see if the object displayed in it is unique. I saw one news report which had multiple photos of the same object but taken from different angles and it must be said, from different people. Authentic very much so, however the number of images needs to be normalised with the number of objects.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#83

Post by ceejayoz »

emteycz wrote: post #80
ceejayoz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Improvements in propaganda operations are significantly counterbalanced by ease of access. The Internet is a wild place, and there are lots of venues like Telegram available for largely unfettered conversations. Plenty of Russians still on Reddit; the chances of them remaining entirely unexposed to external information is slim.

You're severely underestimating how brainwashed they are. They're being brainwashed with fake history and nationalism since kindergarten. They will read the truth on the internet, and immediately dismiss it and then tell you that you're wrong about events you yourself or your parents have observed. It took me several years to undo some of the damage with one Russian person who moved here - they simply couldn't believ…

I think you're underestimating how much that same sensation comes up when talking to many Americans about the Founding Fathers, Constitution, Civil War, and things like Iraq/Afghanistan.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#84

Post by ceejayoz »

watwut wrote: post #58
ceejayoz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Koreans manage to get DVDs of Marvel movies. The Russians will manage - they’ve still got actual access to the Internet.

> North Koreans manage to get DVDs of Marvel movies It is not like average north Korean would routinely watched Marvel movies.

If they're pirating Titanic (https://www.npr.org/2017/07/05/534742750/watching-foreign-mo...), they're probably pirating the MCU.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#85

Post by the_duke »

thinkingemote wrote: post #82
the_duke wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are countless images and videos on Telegram/Twitter of abandoned and captured Russian vehicles, including many not used by Ukrainian forces. Some of them are surely staged for Psyops, but by sheer volume plenty of them must be authentic.

One can examine each image and see if the object displayed in it is unique. I saw one news report which had multiple photos of the same object but taken from different angles and it must be said, from different people. Authentic very much so, however the number of images needs to be normalised with the number of objects.

There is a whole "OSINT" (open source intelligence) community doing just that and publishing counts. They also try to geolocate the images via terrain and buildings using maps, satellite images, etc to disambiguate.

Pretty odd way to pass the time ... but they seem to be confident in substantial Russian losses.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#86

Post by Dma54rhs »

willis936 wrote: post #39
watwut wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wont be reading this. Russia is informationally closed and now it became crime to spread "disinformation about war". This would likely fall in that category (regardless of whether true or not). Also, Russian soldiers are dying too. It is fair to guess they are more likely to die then become POW.

I spoke with several Russians on 4chan last night.

There are many rulings against 4chan in Russia and while I'm not sure about the status right now, they used simple DNS blocks back in the day what is somewhat easy to avoid for semi computer literate people. VPNs are also obviously popular. If you end up in a blacklist it's forbidden to read, distribute etc these links.

You can check rublacklist.net for more detailed stuff and rulings.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#88

Post by fuoqi »

koonsolo wrote: post #81
fuoqi wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I rationalize it? I simply stated easy observations, which are not obvious to those who mostly form opinion based on the extremely active propaganda. While I have zero sympathy for the post-2014 Ukrainian regime (it's really far from being a cute little democracy as portrayed by the Western media) and I am fed up with the Western hypocrisy (simply compare the number of invaded countries and how those invasions…

> zero sympathy for the post-2014 Ukrainian regime Why? 72% of votes went to Zelenskyy in the last election. What is your problem with that?

Sure, now compare his election promises which got him those 72% with his actions. He did a literal 180 on his promises and made a bunch of clearly unconstitutional moves with zero critique from the West.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#89

Post by nosianu »

Mo3 wrote: post #65
nosianu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in the US for almost a decade, I did not see any less bureaucracy (for example, two tax returns - Germany is a federation too but I only need to file one). I also hear nightmare stories from other countries far surpassing anything we Germans could cook up, for example from India or from some African countries (not exclusively). "German bureaucracy" is a nice meme, I highly doubt that it even remotely ref…

I doubt you have ever penetrated deep enough into the favorite German pastime. I have a dedicated Nextcloud just to store and maintain order in my postal communication. I‘ve moved to the Netherlands in recent days though and the difference is very notable.

> I doubt you have ever penetrated deep enough into the favorite German pastime.

You don't know me.

Many years ago, early nineties, I worked in the kitchen of a New Jersey summer camp for over two months through a student exchange program.

At one point I decided to show them what "German" and "order" really means. I cleaned up the large pantry. Before, it was what you expect when you hear the term. A somewhat dark place with lots of food stuff in a lot of shelves. When I was done it was a bright room with every single can and every single label of hundreds of different cans and packages aligned to within less than a millimeter with the edge of the shelve and with each other. Every single label pointed exactly forward. Nut a speck of dust anywhere, and light flooded the room and between shelves. The contrast between before and after was stark. The camp manager walked through and did not say a word. My work as an ambassador of German-ness was done :)

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#90

Post by emteycz »

ceejayoz wrote: post #83
emteycz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're severely underestimating how brainwashed they are. They're being brainwashed with fake history and nationalism since kindergarten. They will read the truth on the internet, and immediately dismiss it and then tell you that you're wrong about events you yourself or your parents have observed. It took me several years to undo some of the damage with one Russian person who moved here - they simply couldn't believ…

I think you're underestimating how much that same sensation comes up when talking to many Americans about the Founding Fathers, Constitution, Civil War, and things like Iraq/Afghanistan.

I'm not, and I'm also certain it's nothing compared to the state of Russian public.
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