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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#961

Post by Yoric »

CRConrad wrote: post #925
Yoric wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, please, let's not start blaming most Russians. These sanctions are about ruining the Russian war machine, as well as demonstrating to other authoritarian governments tempted by imperialism that attacking democracies is a bad idea. Individual Russians (with the exception of oligarchs) are collateral damage. And despite the fact that Russians are (probably) going to suffer deeply for it, it's (probably) the right w…

> Oh, please, let's not start blaming most Russians. Any regime can only stay in power as long as it has the support, active or passive, of a majority of its people. (That's why the German people was held collectively responsible for having abided the Nazi regime, and had to go through collective de-Nazification after WW2.) The fact that, with the exception of short periods of anarchy (most recently: the 1990s), Russ…

Have you ever been risked your life and that of your family by being part of a revolutionary movement?

I haven't. I don't know that I would if I lived in a dictatorship. I'm not going to start blaming people because they haven't either.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#962

Post by afroboy »

CRConrad wrote: post #922
codebolt wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you guys even parents? Because you sure make yourselves sound like experts. The truth is I know my kids will make absolutely terrible choices if I leave everything up to them. I myself made a lot of bad choices growing up with unsupervised internet access. And on todays web it seems the pitfalls for a curious young person are even deeper and more plentiful. I'm simply trying to spare my kids some of the same prob…

> The truth is I know my kids will make absolutely terrible choices if I leave everything up to them. Yeah, so what? How the fuck else are they supposed to grow up?

Ok next let them try heroin so they make sure it's a bad thing.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#963

Post by CRConrad »

5ESS wrote: post #364
inductive_magic wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s wrong and makes no sense. Of course it does. The responsibility for the actions of the political class has to be carried by the local population. Post-war Germany wasn't like "oh that wasn't our country, you're looking at it with the wrong scope! It was just Hitler!" - I hope you see how this still holds, even though the most Germans would never have approved of Hitlers atrocities. This is not a 1%-issue, you s…

What you’re saying is absurd. It was 1 man who did those things, not “Russia, the country, as a whole”. I just try to imagine how I would feel if suddenly my life was devestated by foreign nations all because our president made a bad decision. When I did everything in my power not to elect that president, I voted against him, and I spent countless hours trying to convince others to vote against him as well. But ultim…

> What you’re saying is absurd. It was 1 man who did those things, not “Russia, the country, as a whole”.

So who else is responsible for making sure countries aren't crazy dictatorships where “1 man does things, not the country, as a whole”, if not the population of that country?

Or, to turn your usual whataboutism back on you: So you're advocating the Saddam Solution. If a nation won't itself take the responsibility for the dictators it accepts and condones, others must take it for them.

Those are the only two alternatives. So in saying that Russia won't be responsible for getting rid of Putler, you're inviting others to come in and get rid of him for you. Thank you, I hope someone will!

Oh, and if you try to counter that "That will only lead to WW3, with nukes!"... Well, then the priority becomes figuring out how to make a first strike either so overwhelming or so surprising that there is no response from Russia. If the Russian people has any problems with that, maybe they should reconsider their stance on responsibility for their own leadership.

> So why should I suffer the consequences for something in which I had no control over and nothing to do with? It is injustice.

You had and you did. You, collectively as a people, have not deposed the dictator. Whose responsibility is that, if not yours?

Germany underwent collective de-Nazification after WW2, because the nation of Germany was held responsible for democratically voting Hitler into power and not gettting rid of him when he turned the country into a crazy dictatorship. So why shouldn't the same go for the Russian people and nation?

That is justice, not "injustice".

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#964

Post by CRConrad »

5ESS wrote: post #300
batushka3 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should get in trouble. Ordinary citizens of russia must finaly get that russia started WAR. Many still don't beleieve it. As mass media shows only BS about freeing Ukraine from fascists, info has to get to them via collapsed currency, economy, denial of services and other alternative means.

I support free speech and access to a free, open, and uncensored internet for everyone on this planet and I wont discriminate based on nationality.

> I wont discriminate based on nationality.

When a whole nation turns evil, you should.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#965

Post by CRConrad »

yznovyak wrote: post #742
5ESS wrote: post #169

Could I (US citizen) get in trouble for providing free VPNs to Russian nationals? Would these Russians get in trouble for using my US based VPN? I want to support Russians during this difficult time but I don’t want them to get in trouble. I disagree with sanctioning and punishing ordinary citizens for the actions of the rich and powerful 1%. Imagine how it feel being a US citizen and getting punished for Donald Trum…

> I disagree with sanctioning and punishing ordinary citizens for the actions of the rich and powerful 1%. ... I no longer buy this. The war is, unfortunately, very popular with ordinary Russians. And I hope you don't have any illusions that the citizens sincerely support their dear leader Putin. I don't know what would convince you, but if you're American I will assume that you can't read Russian. So for an English…

Absolutely agree on everything else; tiny nitpick only on one part of the Nazi thing. No, of course Ukraine as a whole is far from "a Nazi nation"; far less so than the Fourth Reich based in Moscow!

But, the nitpick: Wagner kind of cancels out with Azov, doesn't it? That shit really reflects pretty badly on Ukraine; I think she should disavow them.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#966

Post by 5ESS »

CRConrad wrote: post #964
5ESS wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support free speech and access to a free, open, and uncensored internet for everyone on this planet and I wont discriminate based on nationality.

> I wont discriminate based on nationality. When a whole nation turns evil, you should.

According to your logic the whole entire nation of Ukraine is evil because some Ukrainians decided to shell schools and homes. https://youtu.be/PGl5USbBLIo

Calling a whole nation evil is bigoted and ignorant as it gets. The Ukrainians deserve to be invaded but even if they didn’t, there are countless brave Russians risking their lives speaking against an evil murderous government, and you call these people evil? Shame on you.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#967

Post by nedpat »

I don't think this will do much. Putin is a very firm person and will keep at his war. They have services in other countries like China that have similar products at cheaper rates too. In fact, this will unnecessarily cause trouble to innocent people who aren't even part of the war.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#968

Post by sirolf1 »

blablablub wrote: post #269

What are the possibilities for an average russian citizen to leave russia and start over somewhere in the west? How about visas? Does anyone know?

I'm trying to help a friend to get out of Russia. Someone knows where you can find information about the current options to leave the country>?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#969

Post by jxding »

stickfigure wrote: post #759
CyberSimon wrote: post #567

Are any countries accepting refuges from Russia that seek asylum? I know some Russians that are wholly against their Government's actions. I hope some provisions are being made to allow those who wish escape to do so...

This is an opportunity that The West is probably going to miss for ideological reasons. We should accept Russian engineers, scientists, doctors. Don't forget that during the Soviet era, they had to build walls to keep their intellectual capital from leaving. Take them!

@pwnallthethings on Twitter makes exactly this point and I find it quite convincing. Link below. If (and this seems increasingly likely) this war drags on, we should try to attract and welcome as many Russian mathematicians, scientists, and engineers as we can before Putin forbids them from travelling.

This is why I find the recent cancellation of many public Russian individuals concerning. We should be offering them citizenship (I exaggerate!), not shaming and dropping them. Rossophobia against normal Russian citizens is counterproductive.

Thread: https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/14979877099686051...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#970

Post by CRConrad »

nathias wrote: post #910
dimator wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the point of soft power. Enough pain, and people revolt against the dipshits that earned them the pain.

but if you cause pain to people, aren't you the dipshit?

Not if that people have accepted and are condoning a dictator that is causing even more pain (including to that people themselves); then they are the ultimate dipshits.
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