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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#431

Post by programmer_dude »

russelldjimmy wrote: post #330
unmole wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am from “upper caste”. My experience might not be commonly heard perspective. In 10th grade of schooling, my parents changed my lastname to avoid that folks figure out the caste. Due to affirmative action (aka reservation) on steroids, upper caste were losing opportunities. My parents wanted to avoid that I lose out on selection, promotions.., where subjective discretion was involved. I'm sorry but this makes no…

Perhaps if something doesn’t make sense, ask for clarity instead of asserting that changing one’s surname makes zero difference. I am also familiar with many upper-caste people who have changed their surname to something generic (like Kumar) to avoid revealing their caste. This doesn’t just apply to job seeking in private enterprises. They do this to avoid any kind of attention drawn to their surname, and hence caste…

They change their surname so that they can weasle into quotas reserved for the repressed class. You are not fooling anybody Mr. Kumar.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#432

Post by bongoman37 »

pyuser583 wrote: post #349
throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

Personally, I’ve much more “empire building” type behavior (let’s hire tons people from my background who will probably support my initiatives), than discrimination against “others.”

No post body was provided.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#433

Post by throwaway_281 »

throwabcd123 wrote: post #375
throwaway_281 wrote: post #366

I would like non-Indian people to know that the caste problem is not uniformly distributed throughout India. In cities like Kolkata, Chennai, and Mumbai- the problem is non-existent. The problem is much more rampant in Northern parts of India. This region is the American south without the good parts. This region ranks the highest in the country for foeticide of girl children. Because the society is deeply patriarchal…

what would you say if we keep reservation as such and make caste self declared?

That would be impractical. And the results of this cannot be perceived now.

But I believe that more communities will seek to be the "lower castes" because there will be benefits.

And, as more and more people will be in the SCs, the benefits will not mean anything anymore becasue everyone will get equal opportunities.

And I am not talking purely speculatively. There were mass movements of certain communities for them to be in the OBCs. They were Unreserved before. Like the Patels in Gujarata, and Jats in Haryana. So, people actually wanted to go from "General" to "Other Backwards Class" to get benefits in employment and higher ed.

Before state elections, incumbent governments promise to communities that they will be included in the OBCs if they win.

In this way, the benefits do get diluted. When a lot of people get same benefits, they are not much of benefits anymore.

This has happened with OBCs.

If the same happens with SCs, then that will be interesting to watch.

And Dalit is not merely caste anymore. It is also people's identity. I would think that many would be opposed to leaving it behind.

I think the people from upper castes other than Brahmins will be quite eager to call themselves Brahmin. Although, not more than few. The race will be towards the bottom.

The people who actually need the help will suffer.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#434

Post by throwaway_281 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #14

It's so disappointing to see in the article that caste discrimination is still being blamed by some on the religion of Hinduism. There's no dharmic status whatsoever for "caste" in the commonplace sense. The Vedas occasionally talk about something that gets misinterpreted as caste, but it's very clear from the texts that they're talking about individual callings and aptitudes, and not any sort of immutable status. Th…

> There's no dharmic status whatsoever for "caste" in the commonplace sense

I have read many verses from Manu Smriti, Parashara Smriti, and Yajnabalka Smriti.

They are ripe with casteism.

In Vedas, too, it is mentioned that Sudras are created from the feet of Purusha, and Brahmins from the head.

And also, Mahabharata mentions that brahmins can't face capital punishment. The most that can be done is banishing them.

Indian scriptures are deeply casteist and sexist, too.

Hinduism itself should be blamed for casteism.

Even Buddha fought against casteism.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#435

Post by sanmon3186 »

ignoramous wrote: post #421
sanmon3186 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time such articles pop-up, I wonder what rock am I living under. In 22 years of experience (Half in US/UK and rest in India) in eight global organizations, not even a single time I heard or witnessed any cast based biases. What we regularly see is region/lingustic biases. Cast based discrimination exist in India, but in my experience the issue is overblown in the knowledge industry.

> ...in my experience* the issue is overblown in the knowledge industry.* Let me hazard a guess: You're "not lower-caste" (and that's how you can then dismiss your own assertion).

I understand where you are coming from. I am not lower-class and may have my biases, but unlike Siddhant in the story, I got my first bicycle (a second hand) at the age of 23 to commute within college campus while doing my masters. So I have definitely not lived in some urban bubble, away from the grassroot issues in the country.

I am not denying the discrimination in the industry. It is the magnitude that I have my doubts on.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#436

Post by throwaway_281 »

kumarvvr wrote: post #264
zozbot234 wrote: post #14

It's so disappointing to see in the article that caste discrimination is still being blamed by some on the religion of Hinduism. There's no dharmic status whatsoever for "caste" in the commonplace sense. The Vedas occasionally talk about something that gets misinterpreted as caste, but it's very clear from the texts that they're talking about individual callings and aptitudes, and not any sort of immutable status. Th…

Because it is easy to do so. Western media is extremely India phobic and Hindu phobic. The caste system, as per scriptures, is just a categorization of work that people do. Every one is prescribed their duties and jobs as per caste. However, there are innumerable instances in the scriptures when people have taken up jobs of other castes, as per situation demands. The discrimination of people based on castes, is an in…

> The caste system, as per scriptures, is just a categorization of work that people do.

This is blatantly false. Can you cite me some?

Even the Lord Rama killed Shambuka because he wanted to learn the Vedas as a Sudra.

Another incident I don't remember from the Mahabharata where one person was keen for reaching brahminic status. And that was denied. And was said as an example.

> there are innumerable instances in the scriptures when people have taken up jobs of other castes, as per situation demands.

Cite me two or three.

And please don't say Parshuram being a warrior or Viswamitra being a sage. Both were upper caste Brahmin or Kshatriya.

All religions are bad. Degree varies.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#437

Post by throwaway_281 »

fastball wrote: post #221
zozbot234 wrote: post #14

It's so disappointing to see in the article that caste discrimination is still being blamed by some on the religion of Hinduism. There's no dharmic status whatsoever for "caste" in the commonplace sense. The Vedas occasionally talk about something that gets misinterpreted as caste, but it's very clear from the texts that they're talking about individual callings and aptitudes, and not any sort of immutable status. Th…

> it's very clear from the texts Not sure that applies to any religious text ever. Regardless, it is clearly not clear , since people are misinterpreting it.

This person is spreading propaganda.

Read Manu Smriti, Yajnabalka Smriti, or Parashara Smriti.

You can find them online.

In Bhagavad Gita, there are no verses that directly say bad things about so-called lower castes, but liberation is offered to people "even if" the seeker is a woman, a son of a prostitute, or a "dog-eating lower caste".

The Hindu scriptures themselves are casteist and sexist.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#438

Post by throwaway_281 »

unmole wrote: post #386
zozbot234 wrote: post #14

It's so disappointing to see in the article that caste discrimination is still being blamed by some on the religion of Hinduism. There's no dharmic status whatsoever for "caste" in the commonplace sense. The Vedas occasionally talk about something that gets misinterpreted as caste, but it's very clear from the texts that they're talking about individual callings and aptitudes, and not any sort of immutable status. Th…

Oh, please. The Ramayana and Mahabharata endorse caste based on birth. Vedas are irrelevant to how Hindusim is practiced on a day to day basis.

It is mentioned in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishads that brahmins were born from the head of the Purusha and the Sudras from His feet.

Dalits are even outside of these four varnas.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#439

Post by icelancer »

beebmam wrote: post #300
icelancer wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> One thing I recommend to my hiring managers is to not allow people from frictioned backgrounds to manage and interview people from the other side. What? This is racist in and of itself and would be blatantly illegal for any number of reasons. Also the problem is not necessarily limited to Pakistani and Indians. It's Indians and Indians. Not sure what you want done there. I freely believe that the caste system of t…

It's called a conflict of interest, and anyone who has a conflict of interest in a given business situation should absolutely be removed from making any decisions around that conflict of interest (and they should be more than forthcoming about those conflicts of interest). Standards of Business Practice 101.

You cannot assume these things because of protected classes having potential issues with one another. Not all Indians have caste issues with other Indians, and excluding them on the basis of nationality/race is strictly prohibited.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#440

Post by icelancer »

Spooky23 wrote: post #317
icelancer wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> One thing I recommend to my hiring managers is to not allow people from frictioned backgrounds to manage and interview people from the other side. What? This is racist in and of itself and would be blatantly illegal for any number of reasons. Also the problem is not necessarily limited to Pakistani and Indians. It's Indians and Indians. Not sure what you want done there. I freely believe that the caste system of t…

You needn’t be ham handed and stupid about it, just use meaningful internal controls. Not just for this issue. If everyone hires friends and family, people from the hometown, place of worship, etc you run into other conflicts of interest. It’s always good to have disinterested parties involved in the hiring process.

On the basis of race, either documented or not, is asking to eat a massive civil lawsuit and get canceled in the media for doing so.
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