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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#411

Post by robinsoh »

icelancer wrote: post #185
throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

>> One thing I recommend to my hiring managers is to not allow people from frictioned backgrounds to manage and interview people from the other side. What? This is racist in and of itself and would be blatantly illegal for any number of reasons. Also the problem is not necessarily limited to Pakistani and Indians. It's Indians and Indians. Not sure what you want done there. I freely believe that the caste system of t…

> I freely believe that the caste system of the host country carries over to the United States,

Until relatively recently, the United States has always had a very strong strictly enforced caste system, even written into law, still the case in some Southern states. Some people were even allowed to buy and sell other types of people! As we can see some people are still allowed to kill certain types of other people with no consequences.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#412

Post by namdnay »

beebmam wrote: post #300
icelancer wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> One thing I recommend to my hiring managers is to not allow people from frictioned backgrounds to manage and interview people from the other side. What? This is racist in and of itself and would be blatantly illegal for any number of reasons. Also the problem is not necessarily limited to Pakistani and Indians. It's Indians and Indians. Not sure what you want done there. I freely believe that the caste system of t…

It's called a conflict of interest, and anyone who has a conflict of interest in a given business situation should absolutely be removed from making any decisions around that conflict of interest (and they should be more than forthcoming about those conflicts of interest). Standards of Business Practice 101.

wouldn't it be deeply discriminatory to assume that person X has a conflict of interest with person Y based solely on their religion, ethnicity or nationality?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#413

Post by auggierose »

jimmydddd wrote: post #182
aletzo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but can you please elaborate a bit more on Greeks and Turks? I happen to be Greek and have worked with 2 Turkish colleagues without any issues. On top of that, during my many travels across Europe, Turks (along with other Balkan nationalities) are by far the most welcoming people I meet once they learn that I come from Greece and I befriended a few of them. Do you have any different experiences to share?

Ottomans (Turks) occupied Greece for 400 years, ending in 1821. Turkey constantly trying to take over Greek islands, etc. Turkey dropping off immigrants on rafts just outside Greek shores. But it doesn't seem to translate to the US much, especially in second generation.

Greeks dropping off immigrants in front of Turkish shores, killing some of them, also seems to happen: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/feb/17/i...

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#414

Post by novok »

sanmon3186 wrote: post #372
dang wrote: post #8

Past related threads. I think there have been others. How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26435117 - March 2021 (195 comments) Caste discrimination in some of Silicon Valley's richest tech companies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952698 - Oct 2020 (322 comments) How India's ancient caste system is ruining lives in Silicon Valley - https://n…

Every time such articles pop-up, I wonder what rock am I living under. In 22 years of experience (Half in US/UK and rest in India) in eight global organizations, not even a single time I heard or witnessed any cast based biases. What we regularly see is region/lingustic biases. Cast based discrimination exist in India, but in my experience the issue is overblown in the knowledge industry.

I was in a rating sync once and noticed some very strange crab bucket behavior that only came from more sr Indian managers and engineers with regards to another jr Indian-origin teammate who never even lived in India AFAIK. The fact that the negative detractors were only Indian, and everyone else was positive about the person made me connect the possibility that maybe there was something going on that I couldn't tell culturally.

I never saw this negative behavior out in our day to day, so it surprised me. This might be how the discrimination happens.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#416

Post by [deleted] »

bgdam wrote: post #350
jhatemyjob wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the other way around. Japanese look down on Chinese.

To put parent poster's comment in context, the Japanese committed unthinkable atrocities on the Chinese civilian population during WW2, a lot of which they haven't even bothered to apologize for to this day. Ergo, a lot of Chinese hate the Japanese with a passion.

[deleted]

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#417

Post by ir123 »

reachtarunhere wrote: post #399
ir123 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely misleading and a copout to suggest that even SC/STs wear the thread. Reality is that 99.99% of them don't. I wouldn't trust Sai Deepak with anything, he's a nut job who for some reason sounds eloquent to the upper class Hindus.

I don't belong to the SC/ST group. I don't wear the thread and none of my friends (no matter which group they come from) do. So I am not sure what is your point? Once again this is some stupid journo not doing research and spreading FUD. If Westerners want to be moralizing the first thing they should start with is being sound about their research. Even actual issues will be dismissed in future by larger population in…

Not sure what you are trying to say?

> Deepak mentions that 15% of those classified as SC/STs also wear the sacred thread

My point is that this is incorrect.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#418

Post by rramadass »

Jeez, this thread is a dumpster fire!

The article is more Paranoia than Fact in today's context.

What may have been true is earlier generations has largely disappeared in Urban areas and in particular; in the IT industry. Everybody just wants a good paying job and a decent life, nobody bothers much about Caste.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#419

Post by ThinkingAgain »

sangnoir wrote: post #212
DesiLurker wrote: post #100

I am an indian & have been in valley for last couple of decades. anecdotally speaking between me and my friends I have never heard of the caste based discrimination until that cisco case. so much so that people would bring it up at gatherings etc. Also in case anyone is wondering, I do not belong to the upper caste and most of my friends like me are not (not dalits either). btw in my experience internet dating & marr…

To quote a saying popularized by Donald Rumsfield: "The absence of evidence is not th evidence of absence". I - a male - haven't heard of any stories of sexual harassment or assault in my social circle (or at the office), but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

Thanks for this perspective on sexual harassment. It helped me realize that eventhough I have not seen it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have never seen sexual harassment but am certain it exists.

I was thinking the problem is limited to India and will not get carried over to US or tech industry in India.

Was not expecting to see caste system in US too and was doubting if it was real. I had heard one story where adults in US were introducing themselves with caste. This story talks about even the kids are introducing with their caste. What are we teaching kids?

Every Indian should read this. It doesn't matter if you discriminate or not, the person suffering is not dealing with just you but lots of people. Even if a small percentage discriminate that is bad enough for that person to feel vulnerable for long time.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#420

Post by ThinkingAgain »

thumbsup-_- wrote: post #356

> A pat on the shoulder might be a friendly greeting—or a search for a sacred thread that some dominant-caste Hindu men wear beneath their shirts I'm a non-dalit Indian working in silicon valley. I know that caste based discrimination is still prevalent in India and not surprised that it continues in here in silicon valley as well amongst Indian community but I'm surprised to read this part in the article. I have nev…

Indeed the children introducing themselves in US with their caste is a thing to be highlighted from the article. Really feel bad about what we are teaching our kids. I am in India not in US, but did not expect this even in India today.
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