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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#282
post #172
post #129

My parents are from India, im from Canada. Luckily ive never really seen any caste discrimination, but we are from a religion that specifically outlawed this hundreds of years ago (sikhism), even though it didn't exactly dissappear. I know its something that exists though, its mind boggling that people still adhere to it. Hopefully it goes away though. Here is an interesting interview type video on it. https://www.yo…

Caste among Sikh[1] and Muslim[2] communities is as deeply rooted as caste in Hindus. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BSN-3nmMyM [2] https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-...

This is overstating the case. While it exists in both communities, it's very uncommon. Still I don't doubt that some people still hold on to those views among the billions in India

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#283
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow outsider here. Got curious and did some searching; would love to hear from some real Indian folks to confirm or deny this line of reasoning. As non-Indians, it seems we exist outside the system, which could be ambiguously interpreted to either have no connotation at all, or to exist at the bottom of the social strata. [1] Anecdotally, the kind of treatment you'll get in practice depends a lot more on your race…

Fellow outsider here. I worked in one of the FAGMAN in a group of about 50 Indians. It became clear rather quickly that I would never move up or get any serious promotion/raise. So at least this one group treated outsiders as lower-caste. There were a couple Russians and Chinese in the group who seemed also permanently stuck at the bottom. For the most part, if you wanted to move up, you left this group and moved int…

>FAGMAN

Do people really use this acronym? Lol that's just unfortunate

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#284
This is Hacker News, I think about workarounds and ways to hack "the system". The article talks about a pat on the shoulder to stealthily check for the Brahmin white thread. What's to prevent someone from wearing a thread under their clothes? If you have a religious problem with it, wear a color other than white, people aren't seeing it.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#285
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Pakistani American and I've worked well with many Indians. This is overcompensating.

I think Indians and Pakistanis quickly understand that outside their native countries they are probably the same and almost have similar culture/language/food.

Another angle is that really nationalistic people don't tend to leave the country they love.

I was happy to move to the US in part because I was pretty tired if my home country.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#286
Living here in Bangalore (India’s so called Silicon Valley) you might miss the caste lines during your early years. It’s very easy to miss all that in the brouhaha of youth in a so called cosmopolitan city. But as you grow older you start seeing it everywhere, in everything.

I see people directly referring to a candidate who didn’t do well in an interview “must have gotten admission to IIT/NIT via reservation” (reservation is something of American affirmative action; but I’m not really sure). Passing remarks behind the back of other colleagues. And then saying things like, apparently being generous, “wow, doesn’t seem like you’re from that community!” (implying as if that community is inherently weak and dumb and the individual is an exception).

My name is as caste neutral as it gets. They still somehow figure it out - thousands of miles from my native place.

When you tell them you never used reservation even though you were eligible - you become kinda of like them, a little. But the moment you say you didn’t use it because you didn’t need it and you wanted to leave the college seat for someone more needy and that you support reservation system - you’re thrown back away from being somewhat like them.

Yes, the them and us are clear distinctions here.

It comes in many shapes and forms. Landlords asking “we’d prefer vegetarians” that’s asking “we’re Brahmins and prefer Brahmin or upper caste tenants”. My friend just lied as he really liked a flat overlooking a lake and trees next to the balcony in a quiet area, he said “well, even though I’m a Brahmin I eat meat once in a while” (he wasn’t a Brahmin) and the landlord was soon saying, “of course, of course, food is a personal choice”. He left soon as the landlord politely but slyly kept trying to glean the confirmation out of his visitors including me, also tried setting him up with his niece assuming his caste.

This will end up being a poorly written extremely long essay if I keep giving examples.

It was very early in my pre teens that I was made aware of my caste and place in the social hierarchy. I was fully aware that I sit somewhere in the middle of the caste hierarchy and there are people above me and also below me.

The power imbalance is so staggering and oppression is so deep rooted in such pervasive manner that all things might get consumed by the simmering anger and hatred one day. People who have lived mostly in cities easily fail to see this. They brush it aside saying we have jobs, we are moving on, we are getting educated.

This is so ignorant and blinding that they not only miss that a far greater number that lives in villages and towns and smaller cities are unseen by them, they are not seeing what’s right in front of them in the same larger cities as well. And yes, a lot of them deliberately do not acknowledge such divides and inequalities - some with a desire to fit in, others with vested interests of historical social power.

PS. Also, it’s so so different from the western notion of racism. So different.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#287
post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

A lot of it is FUD. California withdrew it's Cisco case but you wont' see any coverage of that here. https://thewire.in/caste/california-drops-caste-discriminati... I am from India and have been in the US for more than a decade. I come from a low caste. The only folks who have asked about my caste and asked if I am from a higher caste are white Americans due to my vegetarianism (voluntary for ethical reasons). > Do y…

It appears that the Federal case was dropped, likely due to the fact that there’s no Federal law prohibiting discrimination against caste; but that the agency plans to re-file in State court and pursue the case under State law. So this sounds like a jurisdictional shift, not an admission that the case is meritless or that the conduct is lawful.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#288

I think it serves as a good reminder that racism is a thing most all races do to other races or subgroups of their own race. In tech these days there's enough racial groups that you are as likely (or more, in my experience) to end up with blatantly racist behavior from minority groups who either only hire their own or explicitly do not hire specific minorities they dislike. I remember working at a bank where the port…

I'd also add - caste being a good proxy for class generally..

This fits with a saying I've seen thrown around about our modern times, which is basically that "Class is the only remaining non-taboo bias in American polite society".

Living in a very blue city in a very blue state surrounded by highly educated, "social justice warrior" types .. you'd be surprised how quickly the same people who have every type of window decal/bumper sticker/flag, march in every sort of rally you can imagine, and earnestly support every anti-racism/DEI initiative under the sun.. are willing to "punch down" class-wise, as long as the lower class people are white.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They both are explicitly sexist. Hard to define that away. Maybe it's not bad; but it's sexist. Just as it would be racist if the criteria was making sure one of the interviewers was of specific race or nationality.

That's your opinion, most people probably disagree. A common way to define racism is: negative prejudice + power (The same can be done for sexism, though obviously on different characteristics) From that point of view, making sure that a marginalized candidate is also interviewed by at least one member of the same marginalized community, if possible, is neither racist nor sexist. (Because you're not negatively discri…

The "+ power" only exists in deep academic redefinitions of racism(where many terms are redefined away from their commonplace meaning), and leftist twitter which latched onto the former for some reason.

Most normal Americans, if asked to rank the statements "Black people are disgusting pigs", and "White people are disgusting pigs", would rank them as equally racist, regardless of whether white or black people have "power" in America.

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