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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#191

Post by hasmanean »

user- wrote: post #129

My parents are from India, im from Canada. Luckily ive never really seen any caste discrimination, but we are from a religion that specifically outlawed this hundreds of years ago (sikhism), even though it didn't exactly dissappear. I know its something that exists though, its mind boggling that people still adhere to it. Hopefully it goes away though. Here is an interesting interview type video on it. https://www.yo…

Among Indian and Pakistani Muslims, even though the caste system as a system no longer exists any more for them—neither in law nor custom—the old patterns still exist. Certain professions are more respected, as are certain families and certain skin colours.

It takes time for any historical pattern to be reversed. Centuries, maybe even millennia. Even among people who actively reject the caste system it won’t be so easy for it to go away. Maybe technology can help.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#192

Post by AussieWog93 »

andrewf wrote: post #162
AussieWog93 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"where are you from" Based on the fact that you took some (minor) offense to the followup questions, I'm assuming you're middle-class or higher? I've spent a decent chunk of my adult life living in working class, high-immigrant areas (Noble Park and Sunshine, to any other Melbournians - both actually really nice places). What struck me as interesting is that in these environments, probing about one's ethnicity is no…

I moved from Australia to the US and I agree. It was small talk as a kid in Australia (where 30% of residents are born overseas), and it's a no-no in the US. Possibly I was offending some folks in Australia.. in 2022, as a white man without Mediterranean roots, I'd probably not say your username out loud in either country :)

>in 2022, as a white man without Mediterranean roots, I'd probably not say your username out loud in either country :)

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to print you off a W-word pass. :P

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#193

Post by coldtea »

User23 wrote: post #35
aletzo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but can you please elaborate a bit more on Greeks and Turks? I happen to be Greek and have worked with 2 Turkish colleagues without any issues. On top of that, during my many travels across Europe, Turks (along with other Balkan nationalities) are by far the most welcoming people I meet once they learn that I come from Greece and I befriended a few of them. Do you have any different experiences to share?

I’m under the impression some people are still upset over Cyprus. Edit: corrected cypress misspelling. Thanks repliers!

"Upset over" is kind of an understatement for invasion and occupation (condemned by the UN even).

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#194

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

burnoutgal wrote: post #164
michaelt wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not? I know plenty of tech companies that make sure female applicants get interviewed by at least one female engineer during the hiring process. They have a good faith belief this reduces discrimination rather than increasing it. Of course, it could stray into discriminatory territory if you're doing something dumb - like sending all minority applicants to a hardass interviewer who rejects everyone; or givin…

I have been the token woman interviewing a woman and also joined teams where the only other woman interviewed me. It always struck me more as "look, we have one and she's not mouthing 'get out' so we're a good employer". Usually once I join the one other woman leaves and the cycle repeats.

> "look, we have one and she's not mouthing 'get out' so we're a good employer".

Yes, we have done this in the past with minorities...

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#195

Post by withinboredom »

screye wrote: post #172
user- wrote: post #129

My parents are from India, im from Canada. Luckily ive never really seen any caste discrimination, but we are from a religion that specifically outlawed this hundreds of years ago (sikhism), even though it didn't exactly dissappear. I know its something that exists though, its mind boggling that people still adhere to it. Hopefully it goes away though. Here is an interesting interview type video on it. https://www.yo…

Caste among Sikh[1] and Muslim[2] communities is as deeply rooted as caste in Hindus. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BSN-3nmMyM [2] https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-...

Did you just man-splain someone’s own religion/community?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#196

Post by thowaway_2mar »

zxienin wrote: post #91
yrgulation wrote: post #26

The caste system is so deeply entrenched in the culture of those abused by it that even centuries after leaving india they cant leave it behind. Romania has a considerable group of such people. The Gipsy (also know as Romani) are an Indian people that are thought to have been part of a caste and fled India hundreds of years ago. To this day they cant lift themselves up, and frankly the government of Romania is not do…

Gypsy — India connect, would be interesting TIL for me. Is there a reputed citation on this?

From wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people#Origin)

Genetic findings suggest an Indian origin for Roma. Because Romani groups did not keep chronicles of their history or have oral accounts of it, most hypotheses about the Romani migration's early history are based on linguistic theory. There is also no known record of a migration from India to Europe from medieval times that can be connected indisputably to Roma.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#197

Post by thowaway_2mar »

jeffy90 wrote: post #130
zxienin wrote: post #67

I am from “upper caste”. My experience might not be commonly heard perspective. In 10th grade of schooling, my parents changed my lastname to avoid that folks figure out the caste. Due to affirmative action (aka reservation) on steroids, upper caste were losing opportunities. My parents wanted to avoid that I lose out on selection, promotions.., where subjective discretion was involved. I do not recall ever seeing ca…

These posts consistently make it to the front page of HN. I'm not denying that casteism exists, but since the subject draws so much attention, reporters must feel incentivized to write about it.

^ draws so much attention

Outrage, I would say.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#198

Post by Shindi »

dsl wrote: post #188
pansinghkoder wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or almost like a white man hiring another white man?

This in itself is an incredibly racist statement. It is like saying "an asian hiring another asian" while completely ignoring any sub-groups. "White men" are more diverse than you think and have only in modern times put things like hibernophobia behind us.

Although I agree with your comment that you need to not ignore the nuance behind subgroups, I disagree with you calling your parent comment racist.

These are hard questions and the nuance is not obvious to everyone. For example some people think my group (Arabs) all share common culture even though this is not true.

I think to be able to genuinely change things, we have to be careful about calling other racist. I will be the first to admit I am an ignorant. I think we're all ignorant about something.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#199

Post by jmyeet »

drawkbox wrote: post #128
jmyeet wrote: post #51

It's crazy to me to see people saying "this doesn't exist because I've never seen it". Here's a good rule to live by: privilege is invisible to those who have it. Just think about that. I'm not Indian so can't speak to that experience but discrimination masquerading as "culture fit" is just as rampant in Silicon Valley as it is in the rest of the US. This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism. If you don't t…

> discrimination masquerading as "culture fit" is just as rampant in Silicon Valley as it is in the rest of the US. This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism This is why remote work is so important, the politics of the office and "culture" is more about delivery with remote over internal politics. Remote work emphasizes the external view over the internal view which is always skewed in office environments.…

I actually think remote work will make it worse. Why? Because physical proximity tends to break down social barriers. Not always of course. Remote work doesn't get any of that benefit.

There are obvious upsides of remote work, sure, but my hypothesis is that generalizations are going to be stickier.

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