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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#181

Post by deeteecee »

throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

How did your hiring managers respond? That sounds terrible and racist in itself.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#182

Post by jimmydddd »

aletzo wrote: post #34
throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

I'm sorry, but can you please elaborate a bit more on Greeks and Turks? I happen to be Greek and have worked with 2 Turkish colleagues without any issues. On top of that, during my many travels across Europe, Turks (along with other Balkan nationalities) are by far the most welcoming people I meet once they learn that I come from Greece and I befriended a few of them. Do you have any different experiences to share?

Ottomans (Turks) occupied Greece for 400 years, ending in 1821. Turkey constantly trying to take over Greek islands, etc. Turkey dropping off immigrants on rafts just outside Greek shores. But it doesn't seem to translate to the US much, especially in second generation.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#183

Post by nsajko »

throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

Your idea is unfair and would be illegal to carry out. Because it's racist, obviously.

Furthermore, I live in the Balkans area (Croatia) and it so happens that companies from this area do employ people of varied ethnicity, and those do work on the same teams.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#184

Post by vmception »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #153
vmception wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you saying (for example) Stanford is ranked higher than Yale for tech companies in the Bay? I feel there is an implication this is somehow unfair which I find ridiculous Yes. And yes it is ridiculous because the jobs don't require anything unique from Stanford from employees, and neither should it matter for potential members of the C-Suite or Board, or clients.

The price premium is not because Stanford directly provides something unique. The price premium is because the buyer is predicting the probability of their goals being accomplished to be sufficiently higher due to the Stanford brand name such that it is worth paying a premium for. Maybe the goal is to increase the probability that an employee is smarter, harder working, more motivated, or just better connected. Perha…

the idea is better connected, which factors more for potential investors evaluating the board and c-suite than employees. but it shouldn't weight that heavily there either.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#185

Post by icelancer »

throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

>> One thing I recommend to my hiring managers is to not allow people from frictioned backgrounds to manage and interview people from the other side.

What? This is racist in and of itself and would be blatantly illegal for any number of reasons.

Also the problem is not necessarily limited to Pakistani and Indians. It's Indians and Indians. Not sure what you want done there. I freely believe that the caste system of the host country carries over to the United States, but attempting to subvert that via "good" racist methods is not going to fly, especially if documented.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#186

Post by seneca »

jewayne wrote: post #69
simmanian wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely possible that there were other factors in play. I hope you see the danger or irony of automatically assuming that the Japanese interviewer rejected you because of their racial bias.

I hope you see the danger or irony of stigmatizing the discussion of bias.

Most of these discussions of bias are about as scientific as phrenology, and ought to be treated with as much respect.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#187

Post by kbelder »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #141
michaelt wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not? I know plenty of tech companies that make sure female applicants get interviewed by at least one female engineer during the hiring process. They have a good faith belief this reduces discrimination rather than increasing it. Of course, it could stray into discriminatory territory if you're doing something dumb - like sending all minority applicants to a hardass interviewer who rejects everyone; or givin…

Having a woman in the room when other women are getting interviewed isn't discriminatory. Telling a woman she can't interview someone because she is a woman (or other protected class) is.

They both are explicitly sexist. Hard to define that away.

Maybe it's not bad; but it's sexist. Just as it would be racist if the criteria was making sure one of the interviewers was of specific race or nationality.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#188

Post by dsl »

pansinghkoder wrote: post #156
safog wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge language / culture divide in India and yes managers of a certain culture can hire reports of their culture to be their yes-men but it's not exactly based on caste. It's effectively a French guy hiring another french guy or a German guy stacking their team with other Germans. It's a bit more complicated than that because if you look at things like power distance index (PDI), India measures way higher in…

Or almost like a white man hiring another white man?

This in itself is an incredibly racist statement.

It is like saying "an asian hiring another asian" while completely ignoring any sub-groups. "White men" are more diverse than you think and have only in modern times put things like hibernophobia behind us.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#189

Post by thowaway_2mar »

techie128 wrote: post #161
thowaway_2mar wrote: post #155

Also, this is the reason students in their board exams (+2 / Twelfth-grade tests) were forbidden from writing their last name in the answer sheets. Teachers in India openly discriminated against students from other castes/jatis/varnas by giving them lower marks. Not just caste but discrimination based on the state-of-origin/language are often committed by identifying your group based on your last name. There are ofte…

This is BS. You don't write your name at all, just your student id number.

^ This is BS. You don't write your name at all, just your student id number.

  Also, this is the reason students in their board exams (+2 / Twelfth-grade 
  tests) were forbidden from writing their last name in the answer sheets. 
  Teachers in India openly discriminated against students from other 
  castes/jatis/varnas by giving them lower marks.
Didn't you notice the past tense? Also, this defensiveness without properly reading what I wrote is part of the problem. This maybe BS today, but it wasn't 25-30 years ago.
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