Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

also as an Indian it's my experience that Pakistanis and Indians in foreign countries tend to hang together rather than separately, at least in the circles I've been a part of.

The price premium is not because Stanford directly provides something unique. The price premium is because the buyer is predicting the probability of their goals being accomplished to be sufficiently higher due to the Stanford brand name such that it is worth paying a premium for.

Maybe the goal is to increase the probability that an employee is smarter, harder working, more motivated, or just better connected. Perhaps it is true, perhaps it is not, but for whatever reason, people are willing to pay a premium.

Also, this is the reason students in their board exams (+2 / Twelfth-grade tests) were forbidden from writing their last name in the answer sheets. Teachers in India openly discriminated against students from other castes/jatis/varnas by giving them lower marks.

Not just caste but discrimination based on the state-of-origin/language are often committed by identifying your group based on your last name.

There are often groups in offices from some states that will ensure that folks that are not from their states don't succeed and are coerced into resigning.

Folks from relatively developed states in India don't want to admit students from underdeveloped or poor states, which breeds another form of caste-language-based discrimination in India.

Does caste-based discrimination exist? Yes, it does. But it depends on where you live. In rural India, it is more prevalent than in California.

Is the Indian government doing anything about this menace? Yes, India has a positive discrimination system for these oppressed castes in all government universities and all governmental jobs. Today 65-75% of all seats in top Indian universities are for oppressed, underprivileged, and poor people.

Is it better than now compared to when we got independence? Yes, but many want their kids not to marry into other castes, mainly lower caste.

Is there a correct way to ask about your family background/ ethnicity/whatever? For context, I am a white English-seeming (but not actually) person in London.

I never ask, as I don't want to offend, however I am often quite curious. Not because I doubt anyone's claim to being British - most British Indians are likely more British than I am. Usually, I just want to talk about food, ask if you've been to India, hear your life experiences, reminisce about when I visited India, etc.

One of my favourite work relationships was with an older Indian man who, when he found out I was vegetarian and liked Indian food, he would bring me food his wife had made and give me recipes to cook myself. Sadly he died of Covid, but I still cook the recipes he gave me often - albeit with less ghee.

I feel like it's a little sad that racists have made it hard to talk about any issue touching on ethnicity without worrying that one may be coming from a place of hatred or aggression. My girlfriend is a Filipina so I can pick up the accent, and when I was making small talk with someone I asked if they were from the Philippines. They said yes, but instantly clammed up and didn't really talk to me for the rest of the interaction. But hey, I'm autistic so maybe I'm misunderstanding what I did wrong.

I am an Indian who is from an OBC category. Caste related pieces in the western press miss the entire context around 1st-world-discrimination among Indians. It annoys me to no end, because discrimination is still a major problem in certain communities. But, the western media has cast it onto their agonizingly shallow concept of privilege and bigotry.

I will preemptively apologize for my directness. Euphemisms dilute.

I have written about it in some capacity on HN before. [1] But, I'll give you the 1 pager:

1. There are Indians and then there are Indians. The average undergrad at a UC is one of highly privileged 1st gen immigrant or 2nd gen Indian-American, both of who have no clue what caste even is. It is like trying to solve malnutrition in India, by feeding burgers to your fellow FANG engineer. In my 27 years surrounded by Indians, I have never been asked my caste, nor have my upper-caste peers made questionable comments in confidence.

2. Caste issues persist among those who pursue the hardest paths to success (eg: L1 sweat shop route) in the US. However, over the years, I have seen it develop into a 'crabs in a bucket' style circular firing squad. The more they believe in the 'zero sum nature' of an engagement, the more willing people are to stifle someone from the outgroup in an effort to get ahead. It is a dog-eat-dog world out there.

3. In truly poor communities in non-urban India, caste is a reality of life. India is a shit-hole nation (as a famous man once said). Desperate times in shit-hole places nudge good people into vile behaviors. Even past the explicit discrimination, generational poverty is crippling. On the bright side, things are getting less worse as a fast pace. But, to paint any rosier picture about this would amount to lying.

4. Sloppy affirmative action breeds resentment. (America, take notes) It hurts me to say this, but the proof is in the pudding. At my moderately-prestigious-Indian-university, I saw liberal 'general'(upper-ish caste) students turn resentfully anti-affirmative-action as they saw the bar be dropped so lower every year, in the Indian zero-sum career market. People are not judged for their caste. They are judged because their caste reveals that they got an easier path within a narrow academic structure. (This ofc, ignores the crippling poverty and social barriers these people also have to overcome. But, sociology 101 is not in our gen-eds).

5. Caste is dead, long live caste - Caste is so 1990s. The entire societal hierarchy shifted under the feet of sub-par social commenters and they never even noticed. A decent portion of 2nd generation American-Indians don't fraternize with 1st generation Indians. IITians stick to IItians. Masters H1b-OPT candidates look down on those who came through the L1 consultancy sweat-shop grind. I could write an entire book on this. It is a brutally merit status system, where merit is defined within a narrow academic context. (Indians are not unique in this phenomenon. I frequently see this among urban american communities too. Sorting into groups based on internal perceptions of status happens whenever a community reaches size threshold. If anything, it is a rather familiar social stratification)

Shoe-horning the caste issue into hyper-polarized and shallow american power struggles is worsening the issue. India has been making rapid progress in terms of helping lower-caste communities. From representation in every local + national body to economic assistance to educational assistance to a harsh anti-discrimination law. In 70 years of independence, we have come a long way. The progress may be on a low base, but the delta is huge. UCs and California Liberals (with all connotations it carries) are wielding caste as a weapon for political means. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30059449