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Caltech's CS interview prep course

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Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think algorithms allow you to pick up all of those other things more quickly. I'm not saying that the interviews are a perfect way to measure this , but a good understanding of algorithms is really useful to understand any software

No it doesn't. You can pick up all the other things without competitive algorithms knowledge. That's the key word: competitive. This is knowledge excessively optimized for coding competitions like top coder. Think of it this way. Can all theoretical mathematicians do well in a timed math competition? Certainly there are those that will, but certainly there are many great mathematicians who won't do well yet have prod…

Most faang employees would not do well in competitive programming challenges because those are way harder than interview questions. Some interview style questions are unreasonable but a lot can be solved with basic concepts

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we see what the alternative to whiteboard interviews: credentialism. Get into the right school and muddle through and get a guaranteed 200k! Is there more to you than your high school performance? Push back against this if so! (Calling the interview Leetcode is misleading IME, since I've rarely been asked something that would be near the upper tiers of that site's difficulty). Top-tier tech companies face a LOT…

> why should I trust the university selection process more than those corporate hiring ones? I don't know the US education system enough, but there are some schools out there which are much more selective than any SWE interview process. You can be guaranteed that the worst student from these top schools could nail any algorithm interview with minimal preparation. But these big companies hire many more people than the…

I went to a highly selective university and I certainly could not not nail any algorithm interview with minimal preparation. Algorithms is one class. It consisted mostly of proofs, a little pseudocode, zero working programs. The particular algorithms we spent a lot of time on were pretty obscure in the interview world: Gale-Shapley matching, Ford-Fulkerson max flow. The goal was never to have a wide repertoire of algorithms that you could write down on command, and certainly not anything to do with implementation.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. You can pick up all the other things without competitive algorithms knowledge. That's the key word: competitive. This is knowledge excessively optimized for coding competitions like top coder. Think of it this way. Can all theoretical mathematicians do well in a timed math competition? Certainly there are those that will, but certainly there are many great mathematicians who won't do well yet have prod…

Most faang employees would not do well in competitive programming challenges because those are way harder than interview questions. Some interview style questions are unreasonable but a lot can be solved with basic concepts

Yes, there are degrees of hardness with competitive programming being the very tip top and FAANG interviews (googles especially) being not so far behind. Think of it like this, in competitive programming is S-tier. Faang interviews are A-tier.

The job only requires C-tier. Just know you basic DFS, BFS, recursion, heaps and all that stuff and how to look shit up when needed is C-tier.

Look, the above is just my opinion against yours, but what do the metrics say?

Googles acceptance rate is less than harvard. That's like less then 1%. There's two conclusions you can draw from that metric:

   Conclusion 1: Only 1% of people who applied are able to work at google.
   Conclusion 2: The google filter is extreme and filtering way beyond people who are just capable of working for google.
Google even admits this. They bias the interviews to be hard to get rid of false positives who can potentially make it through slightly easier interviews. As a result they end up creating a lot of false negatives...

That's the narrative google makes up to excuse their less than 1% acceptance rate. Makes them seem less seem less elitist. But to crank up the hardness of the interview to less than 1% for this excuse? That's a little extreme. If the acceptance rate was 20% sure... but not less than 1%. They're asking me to believe a reality where there's so many potential false positives that they have to crank up the difficulty to a 1% acceptance rate? LOL.

It's BS. But either way. Google needs to filter somehow as they can't have everyone working for them. There's not enough money or space for everyone who applies. The question is whether algorithms are the best filter? My argument is no, it is not. Rejecting the creator of brew (and on the facebook side, the creator of hadoop) for example is the kind of stupidity that comes from religiously worshipping algorithms as the one true indicator of programmer skill.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#334
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> primarily pattern matching. You have a toolkit with a set of abstractions for modeling the problem and a set of algorithmic techniques for solving it. If you have the right tools in the toolkit, potential solutions will jump out. You then pick a promising solution and figure out the details. If you don't have the right tools, you have to go back to reading or start building new tools from basic principles. That can…

Intelligence is usually understood as a relatively fixed factor that cannot be trained effectively. Algorithm design is mostly about the patterns you already know.

IME how many patterns you were able to rote-memorize is a very small factor in how good you are at algorithm design; the limiting factor is more likely to be your ability to filter out irrelevant details and abstract out the essence of the problem and see how that relates your library of patterns, and that part is mostly innate rather than trainable.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#335
post #303
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds even worse in terms of setting realistic expectations for what the job will involve day-to-day. How many times is someone actually going to redesign a system like that?

Respectfully disagree. Teaching and explaining the current system to new and lower-level folks is arguably one of the most important skills for a senior developer. As for the system, they're not redesigning anything, they're teaching something that (as a senior) they should already know, as if we're juniors. Think typical box-arrow system architecture diagram, DB schema, that sort of thing.

Explaining the system is certainly something that happens, but in terms of hours/month I'd say it's something you do less of than leetcode-like coding work. Actually reconsidering your core design in response to some changing fundamentals, which sounded like it's what you're testing in this interview, is something that you do a few times a year at best.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hiring rigmarole is just an IQ test in disguise. The only downside, you can prep for IQ tests, and spend unlimited time doing the prep. If only someone would come up with a way to control for how long they prepped for this: one week on hackerrank, or 2 years of courses. I bet those that learn the rigmarole faster, will also pickup k8s and other such fairly ephemeral trivia rather quickly as well.

> The hiring rigmarole is just an IQ test in disguise. Do you have any data to back a claim that ridiculous? I hear this bullshit all the time, yet nothing to back it up. If you think IQ would be a good hiring signal, then just administer an IQ test instead of LC question.

I agree with you in that, we should drop this nonsense, and administer IQ tests legally.

Until laws change, this rigmarole will continue though. Administering IQ tests is illegal, that's why this rigmarole exists in the first place.

The military isn't subject to silly laws like that, and they do administer IQ tests directly, and place talent accordingly.

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