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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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121–130 of 592 posts

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a tendency in the West to view all minorities as somehow being the same. Is there? While my experience comes from living in a cosmopolitan border town, it is hard to imagine anyone seriously lumping Asians in with Africans, short of the outright rascists raging against "immigrants"

The following sentence clearly mentions what kind of lumping takes place; "All Africans" / "All Asians" etc.

I think it's common of all groups to lump individuals of other groups. Someone might say " all think that ".

it's worth noting that those with more power have greater potential to cause damage with their haphazard lumping

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#122

In a well known big tech company (FAANG), I have seen many many examples of a whole layer of management from the same caste. So like under one director, every senior manager will have been from the same part of India. Sometimes this will extend to another layer of managers below them. Behind the scenes, there is a strong communication network that is often not caught or shown in org charts. This will include high ran…

There's a huge language / culture divide in India and yes managers of a certain culture can hire reports of their culture to be their yes-men but it's not exactly based on caste.

It's effectively a French guy hiring another french guy or a German guy stacking their team with other Germans. It's a bit more complicated than that because if you look at things like power distance index (PDI), India measures way higher in the chart than any western country (i.e., culturally Indians are more accepting of hierarchy than their western counterparts, so an Indian subordinate is more deferential to their boss than an American one for example)

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#124
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism. If you don't think MIT/Stanford grads in their mid 20s at Big Tech companies have more doors open to them you're crazy. Of course they have more doors open to them. They went to a good school and worked at a well known company.

Different 'good schools' are received differently, though. If you work in Bay Area tech, a Stanford degree is more equal than others. --Someone who went to a good non-Stanford school and works for a well-known company

Are you saying (for example) Stanford is ranked higher than Yale for tech companies in the Bay? I feel there is an implication this is somehow unfair which I find ridiculous. I mean, it is unfair I guess but it isn’t wrong.

And this is coming from someone that went to a mid-sized state school.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#125

The caste system is so deeply entrenched in the culture of those abused by it that even centuries after leaving india they cant leave it behind. Romania has a considerable group of such people. The Gipsy (also know as Romani) are an Indian people that are thought to have been part of a caste and fled India hundreds of years ago. To this day they cant lift themselves up, and frankly the government of Romania is not do…

Just an FYI to other HNers reading this, in Europe there is more than one group of (somewhat, complicated) unrelated people referred to as “Gypsy/Gipsy” (which is often but not always seen as a slur) which includes Irish travelers in the UK and Ireland as well as Yenish people in Northwestern Europe (and a few other groups). That’s in addition to Romani people that Parent is referring to which is what most people wor…

Thanks for the clarification. Totally forgot about the other groups. Also worth noting, in the UK many people confuse Romani with Romanian. The history and culture of the Romani is widely misunderstood and under appreciated.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#126
post #67

I am from “upper caste”. My experience might not be commonly heard perspective. In 10th grade of schooling, my parents changed my lastname to avoid that folks figure out the caste. Due to affirmative action (aka reservation) on steroids, upper caste were losing opportunities. My parents wanted to avoid that I lose out on selection, promotions.., where subjective discretion was involved. I do not recall ever seeing ca…

I am a non-white citizen of Russia through a rather bizarre family history.

My parents changed my, and their names, and surname to Slavic sounding for reasons you can understand. Out of many, lower risk of being drafted (being non-white, and living in far-east increases likelihood of draft 10x,) ease of getting into a good school, or university for me, and simply lower chances of getting into random troubles with officials.

At the same time, knowing this, I am as much as discomforted by practice of meritless "diversity hire" just for the sake of putting people of colour to pass the diversity checkbox.

Pretending to play a role of "smart south Asian" while yes-manning, and knowing you being a decoration is as bad as discrimination, if not worse.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#128
post #51

It's crazy to me to see people saying "this doesn't exist because I've never seen it". Here's a good rule to live by: privilege is invisible to those who have it. Just think about that. I'm not Indian so can't speak to that experience but discrimination masquerading as "culture fit" is just as rampant in Silicon Valley as it is in the rest of the US. This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism. If you don't t…

> discrimination masquerading as "culture fit" is just as rampant in Silicon Valley as it is in the rest of the US. This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism

This is why remote work is so important, the politics of the office and "culture" is more about delivery with remote over internal politics. Remote work emphasizes the external view over the internal view which is always skewed in office environments. Remote work opens up a broader market of workers and can flow with life changes of employees easier like a move, families or travel.

We all do lots of remote already to everyone outside the office. Most communication is virtual now even within the same company, across offices in different areas and most importantly, to the customer of the product. The external view is most important, always. Remote can help automatically focus on external perception over internal perception. Remote work can minimize the weight of office politics and "culture".

Another legacy area we need to change is removing health insurance from the job. We don't get our home/auto/life insurance through work and it would be a pain if we did, imagine changing all that on jobs. Contracting or entrepreneurship helps to get your own benefits for healthcare and it is truly a better way. Health insurance removed from the job will help businesses compete with countries that do have public options or private markets not connected to the employer, allow workers more freedom to change jobs, allow people to start jobs easier and isn't constantly a hassle. Getting healthcare on your own or not requiring it to be business level is both pro-business and pro-worker. It also can fix pricing as the customer is now individuals/families not employers, all we need to do is group similar to Medicare groups. Right now grouping is based on the company and this puts sole/small/medium companies at a disadvantage in pricing.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#129
My parents are from India, im from Canada. Luckily ive never really seen any caste discrimination, but we are from a religion that specifically outlawed this hundreds of years ago (sikhism), even though it didn't exactly dissappear.

I know its something that exists though, its mind boggling that people still adhere to it. Hopefully it goes away though.

Here is an interesting interview type video on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g9EraoHbWw

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#130
post #67

I am from “upper caste”. My experience might not be commonly heard perspective. In 10th grade of schooling, my parents changed my lastname to avoid that folks figure out the caste. Due to affirmative action (aka reservation) on steroids, upper caste were losing opportunities. My parents wanted to avoid that I lose out on selection, promotions.., where subjective discretion was involved. I do not recall ever seeing ca…

These posts consistently make it to the front page of HN. I'm not denying that casteism exists, but since the subject draws so much attention, reporters must feel incentivized to write about it.
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