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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#101

Post by noodlesUK »

yrgulation wrote: post #26

The caste system is so deeply entrenched in the culture of those abused by it that even centuries after leaving india they cant leave it behind. Romania has a considerable group of such people. The Gipsy (also know as Romani) are an Indian people that are thought to have been part of a caste and fled India hundreds of years ago. To this day they cant lift themselves up, and frankly the government of Romania is not do…

Just an FYI to other HNers reading this, in Europe there is more than one group of (somewhat, complicated) unrelated people referred to as “Gypsy/Gipsy” (which is often but not always seen as a slur) which includes Irish travelers in the UK and Ireland as well as Yenish people in Northwestern Europe (and a few other groups). That’s in addition to Romani people that Parent is referring to which is what most people worldwide probably associate with that word.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#102

Post by bobbles »

tomc1985 wrote: post #87
jmyeet wrote: post #51

It's crazy to me to see people saying "this doesn't exist because I've never seen it". Here's a good rule to live by: privilege is invisible to those who have it. Just think about that. I'm not Indian so can't speak to that experience but discrimination masquerading as "culture fit" is just as rampant in Silicon Valley as it is in the rest of the US. This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism. If you don't t…

> There is a tendency in the West to view all minorities as somehow being the same. Is there? While my experience comes from living in a cosmopolitan border town, it is hard to imagine anyone seriously lumping Asians in with Africans, short of the outright rascists raging against "immigrants"

But what you will absolutely find is people for example lumping Asian people together, whether theyre from Japan, China, Korea, etc.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#103

Post by AussieWog93 »

12ian34 wrote: post #41
belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

I'm Indian born with British nationality and I look Indian. It doesn't bother me if people ask me where I'm from - I am often curious about where others are from. It does, however, start to slightly grate if upon me responding with "I'm British", I am quizzed further with "But... where are you really from?" I hear this less nowadays, but it used to be common enough to "slightly grate", particularly from older, Caucas…

>"where are you from"

Based on the fact that you took some (minor) offense to the followup questions, I'm assuming you're middle-class or higher?

I've spent a decent chunk of my adult life living in working class, high-immigrant areas (Noble Park and Sunshine, to any other Melbournians - both actually really nice places).

What struck me as interesting is that in these environments, probing about one's ethnicity is nothing more than smalltalk. Everybody has one; they're curious about yours and will ask directly.

In more upper-middle-class environments, though, it can be really taken the other way as ethnicity is something semi-taboo that needs to be treated far more carefully.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#104

Post by j_walter »

bin_bash wrote: post #90
jmyeet wrote: post #51

It's crazy to me to see people saying "this doesn't exist because I've never seen it". Here's a good rule to live by: privilege is invisible to those who have it. Just think about that. I'm not Indian so can't speak to that experience but discrimination masquerading as "culture fit" is just as rampant in Silicon Valley as it is in the rest of the US. This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism. If you don't t…

> This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism. If you don't think MIT/Stanford grads in their mid 20s at Big Tech companies have more doors open to them you're crazy. Of course they have more doors open to them. They went to a good school and worked at a well known company.

Yep...and this is just how society works. Like saying that if you think Harvard/Yale grads have more doors open to them in politics then you're crazy. Like of course they do...Since 1992 all of the president except Trump have had law degrees (Yale, Harvard, Syracuse) or an MBA (Harvard). Even Trump still had an Ivy league education...

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#105

Post by dboreham »

camtarn wrote: post #64
pinephoneguy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously your ancestors aren't British so there's something to the "where are you really from" question. I've been asked similar things even as a White American.

It has rather different connotations in Britain. As far as I understand it from Americans I know, quite a few people in the US have a fascination with where their, and others', ancestors came from, so it could be a fairly innocuous question. Pretty much any American I know would happily rattle off an answer of 'oh, I'm half Irish, a quarter French, and a quarter Spanish' or something similar. Here in the UK, even tho…

"Where are you from" means the same in the US (source: moved from UK to US 25 years ago). Someone who is interested in your ethnic background would ask "what's your your heritage" or perhaps "what are you?". "Where are you from?" is always going to mean Where did you personally physically come from.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#106

Post by gunfighthacksaw »

zxienin wrote: post #91
yrgulation wrote: post #26

The caste system is so deeply entrenched in the culture of those abused by it that even centuries after leaving india they cant leave it behind. Romania has a considerable group of such people. The Gipsy (also know as Romani) are an Indian people that are thought to have been part of a caste and fled India hundreds of years ago. To this day they cant lift themselves up, and frankly the government of Romania is not do…

Gypsy — India connect, would be interesting TIL for me. Is there a reputed citation on this?

Read the history of the Roma on Wikipedia. It is commonly accepted that they migrated from the Punjab in the Middle Ages.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#107

Post by bajirao »

belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

Its 100% true in my experience. You can identify caste of most Indians based on their last names. This is one of the reasons some Indians do not use last name at all. (e.g. from Tamil Nadu or from Northern states of India). At work you can't hide your last name, so other Indian co-workers can identify your caste with trivial effort. However, I try to hide my last name in any type of social (non-work) related conversations and try to avoid any groups where group members are really curious about my last name.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#108

Post by gunfighthacksaw »

danans wrote: post #74
fhrow4484 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I look like a brahmin person > they assume my caste based on how I look I'm curious in this comment, are you dressing up a certain way that is typical of brahmin, or are there some other characteristics that makes you look brahmin?

Due to historical endogamy of Indian castes, there are very often phenotypes that are associated with relative position in the caste hierarchy. This is highly regional, and far from exact, but leads to examples like the GP gave. These patterns are often used by people as a shorthand for categorizing another's relative caste and often as the basis for discrimination. At a very broad generalization, upper caste individ…

We stamped this kind of thinking out of Europe in the 40s. Shame it wasn’t all over the world, but… scope creep

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#109

Post by newsclues »

avalys wrote: post #18
throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

The solution you propose is arguably just as bad and I suspect it might be illegal in the US. If I am a qualified manager or tech lead, and there is an opportunity to lead a new project, I would be furious to learn that I was passed over for the opportunity because someone believed I was ethnically incompatible with one of the people on the team.

Affirmative action does that!

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#110

Post by not2b »

pinephoneguy wrote: post #45
12ian34 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Indian born with British nationality and I look Indian. It doesn't bother me if people ask me where I'm from - I am often curious about where others are from. It does, however, start to slightly grate if upon me responding with "I'm British", I am quizzed further with "But... where are you really from?" I hear this less nowadays, but it used to be common enough to "slightly grate", particularly from older, Caucas…

Obviously your ancestors aren't British so there's something to the "where are you really from" question. I've been asked similar things even as a White American.

No, it isn't phrased the same way. If you have an ethnic-sounding last name but don't have a foreign accent you might be asked about your ancestry, but they won't say "where are you REALLY from" with the stress on the word "really", the way it's said to, say, someone with Asian ancestry, born in the US, who answers "I'm from Chicago".
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