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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#41

Post by 12ian34 »

belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

I'm Indian born with British nationality and I look Indian. It doesn't bother me if people ask me where I'm from - I am often curious about where others are from. It does, however, start to slightly grate if upon me responding with "I'm British", I am quizzed further with "But... where are you really from?" I hear this less nowadays, but it used to be common enough to "slightly grate", particularly from older, Caucasian Brits. Not everyone that is British/American is also Caucasian.

I don't think you should stop asking people where they are from. But perhaps don't interrogate them (we get enough of that at airports), implying that they're obstructing their true origin from you. Also, tone matters, whether you like it or not. Saying "where are you from" can sound genuinely curious, but it can easily sound disgusted and derogatory.

On any implied caste system, I can speak for the London tech startup world in which I've worked for several years. I've probably had dozens of (South) Asian colleagues and have never noticed the slightest hint of intra-Asian racism or classism.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#42

Post by AdmiralAsshat »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #22
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually does occur to me, mostly because I'm curious if all of my coworkers are of Brahmin caste. It doesn't matter to me personally, but obviously it would be of interest if all of the people in the Managerial or Lead roles are from a certain caste, while all of the lower-level Devs are in another.

Couldn't that be a follow-on effect from a lifetime of advantages in education and opportunity costs? It's not necessary to imagine a special Brahmin-loving company administration.

Oh, definitely. It could be neither intentional nor malicious. But it would still be interesting to know.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#43

Post by vmception »

johntiger1 wrote: post #28
birdyrooster wrote: post #24

A bit off topic but, separate from Indian culture, the United States has a hidden caste system too that flows from antiquity and is given texture through American slavery. If your family was a slave or you look like a slave you are, unconscious in the minds of most, systemically bottom caste here. Sorry if it is an unsatisfying critique of America but its obvious. Go look at the wealth data, look who is thriving and…

from my understanding, the caste system is thousands of years old (in fact one of the reason islam was welcomed and later sikh religion developed). are you sure that american slavery was the origin?

They are talking about the US distinctly. The US caste system, which has morphed primarily into a class system as the laws no longer explicitly single groups out, despite the correlations of effects that remain.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#44

Post by rootusrootus »

nraynaud wrote: post #17

I can't imagine the crazy headache for management, like are you going to ask your Indian teamates their cast when you suspect there is foul play in the team?

In my experience, the answer is always some form of "there are no castes any more." They know that most non-Indians lack the ability to prove otherwise, we can't even detect it.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#45

Post by pinephoneguy »

12ian34 wrote: post #41
belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

I'm Indian born with British nationality and I look Indian. It doesn't bother me if people ask me where I'm from - I am often curious about where others are from. It does, however, start to slightly grate if upon me responding with "I'm British", I am quizzed further with "But... where are you really from?" I hear this less nowadays, but it used to be common enough to "slightly grate", particularly from older, Caucas…

Obviously your ancestors aren't British so there's something to the "where are you really from" question. I've been asked similar things even as a White American.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#46

Post by Sebguer »

johntiger1 wrote: post #28
birdyrooster wrote: post #24

A bit off topic but, separate from Indian culture, the United States has a hidden caste system too that flows from antiquity and is given texture through American slavery. If your family was a slave or you look like a slave you are, unconscious in the minds of most, systemically bottom caste here. Sorry if it is an unsatisfying critique of America but its obvious. Go look at the wealth data, look who is thriving and…

from my understanding, the caste system is thousands of years old (in fact one of the reason islam was welcomed and later sikh religion developed). are you sure that american slavery was the origin?

They're not implying that the Indian caste system originated in American slavery, they're stating that America also has a caste system.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#47

Post by fdgsdfogijq »

In a well known big tech company (FAANG), I have seen many many examples of a whole layer of management from the same caste. So like under one director, every senior manager will have been from the same part of India. Sometimes this will extend to another layer of managers below them. Behind the scenes, there is a strong communication network that is often not caught or shown in org charts. This will include high ranking engineers and managers from sister organizations.

It usually doesnt extend beyond that, since HR will be all over it. Often they will even go out of their way not to hire Indians as their directs, so as to deny any discrimination based hiring. But its rampant.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#48

Post by pinephoneguy »

birdyrooster wrote: post #24

A bit off topic but, separate from Indian culture, the United States has a hidden caste system too that flows from antiquity and is given texture through American slavery. If your family was a slave or you look like a slave you are, unconscious in the minds of most, systemically bottom caste here. Sorry if it is an unsatisfying critique of America but its obvious. Go look at the wealth data, look who is thriving and…

Has vs had. I suppose you could say the races that were former slaves are now given an artificial advantage but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a caste system.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#49

Post by fhrow4484 »

dhanvantharim1 wrote: post #33
belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

Its possible some of it is true, I know well educated brahmin acquaintances who have outright said they are superior. I look like a brahmin person and they tend to let their guard down around me, But no one has ever asked me about my caste (Maybe because they assume my caste based on how I look). At the same time there are lots frivolous lawsuits from the groups mentioned in this article so its hard to say.

> I look like a brahmin person

> they assume my caste based on how I look

I'm curious in this comment, are you dressing up a certain way that is typical of brahmin, or are there some other characteristics that makes you look brahmin?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#50

Post by simmanian »

franklampard wrote: post #38
throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

> Chinese and Japanese When I interviewed last time; the only company i did not make through phone screen was by a Japanese interviewer. I gave a three viable solutions to an easy question. Had no idea why I failed but probably because of racism

It's definitely possible that there were other factors in play. I hope you see the danger or irony of automatically assuming that the Japanese interviewer rejected you because of their racial bias.
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