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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#881
post #866

Quoted post unavailable.

You're not really allowed to mention this, nor are you allowed to note that the current Ukraine government is an illegitimate installation by FVEY IC in 2014, after the democratically elected one was overthrown. Also best not to point out that very large contingents of the defenders are actual literal Nazis.

Our marching orders from our media betters are to uncritically root for Ukraine, so that's what we'll do.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm never sure how to take these comments. Are you saying Ukraine is no big deal and anyone complaining about it should shut up, or are you saying it's a shame that people didn't take the other wars more seriously? Either way, you should be more specific in your complaint so people can disagree or not, without having to guess what you mean and inadvertantly assume you're pro-invasion and trying to undermine the globa…

I'm not complaining, I'm stating a fact. Take from it what you will. Why does it have to be something you can disagree with?

If nobody is supposed to react to it, then what is your irrelevant "fact" doing in this (or any) discussion?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#884
post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with sanctioning and punishing ordinary citizens for the actions of the rich and powerful 1%. ... I no longer buy this. The war is, unfortunately, very popular with ordinary Russians. And I hope you don't have any illusions that the citizens sincerely support their dear leader Putin. I don't know what would convince you, but if you're American I will assume that you can't read Russian. So for an English…

Why are there videos of civilians living in the disputed territory claiming that Ukrainian military forces shelled their schools and homes? https://youtu.be/PGl5USbBLIo

For the exact same reason you will find a lot of videos claiming that Ukrainian military shot down MH17.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#885
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

The other different thing is that Russia is now perceived as potential threat to NATO members. As in, people wonder about where Russian aggression will continue after.

Sweden and Finland have dithered for decades, not applied for NATO membership because "it might provoke Russia". Maybe now they'll finally learn that the biggest danger with a NATO membership is not having it: So far, AFAIK, exactly none of the countries attacked and invaded by Russia have been NATO members.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#886
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

How many of those were active landgrabs though? Wars for redrawing borders have really become exceptionally rare. Particularly if you exclude those staged by Putin on some weak pretense (Putin, or whether his real name is. After the last weeks I don't believe a single word he says)

> (Putin, or whether his real name is. After the last weeks I don't believe a single word he says)

Putlin. Or Putler.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#887
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is whataboutism and it is so tired. A good propaganda tactic though, and the Russians are using it as an attack vector. Westerners seem really vulnerable to this form of propaganda, possibly due to the success of previous information warfare led by Russia. Bringing up some other terrible thing for comparison does not change in any way whatsoever the severity of what is happening in Ukraine. Whataboutism propagan…

it's not whataboutism. It's a very valid point. American power is imperial. Putin is imperial too. The amount of harm that the US committed cannot be forgotten. As I won't forget Putin.

imperial means empire. please tell me, what is the extent of the American Empire?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the middle east could have gotten better, there was a possibility that the dictatorships would get replaced by proper democracy, I think the US didn't realize how far down corruption and authoritarianism were rooted in those countries, it is like a Hydra, cut one head, many more grew. For example, Panama, Chile, Germany, Japan, South Korea all turned out better after US intervention. But Afghanistan, Iraq a…

> South Korea Just so you know, there used to be a single Korea. One of them is doing OK now, although it took like 35 years after the US invaded before SK transformed itself into a democratic country, which Koreans did IN SPITE of American support for their dictator. The other one is possibly the worst regime currently active on Earth. South Korea is really not an American FP win.

And look what a coincidence, shithole Korea is the one the Communists "defended", not the one on America's side.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#889
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They" are also Russians. The key here would be convincing members of the police / army that they should work for the people, not Putin.

That's the real issue right now, the people can do all kinds of civil disobedience, but as long as the police just rounds them up and arrests them by the thousands it won't change anything. I wonder what it'll take. Given that currently the Russian economy is getting decimated, I wonder if it'll take a few weeks or months of not getting paid. But that might just make them more ruthless and make them start extorting p…

In previous eras pay was highly correlated with the ability to project force, since keeping those parties happy was what kept a ruler in power. Given that Putin rules like a petty feudal lord I imagine a similar principle holds here.

If police stop getting paid, while having to battle thousands of protesters each day, I expect their loyalty to change very quickly.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the middle east could have gotten better, there was a possibility that the dictatorships would get replaced by proper democracy, I think the US didn't realize how far down corruption and authoritarianism were rooted in those countries, it is like a Hydra, cut one head, many more grew. For example, Panama, Chile, Germany, Japan, South Korea all turned out better after US intervention. But Afghanistan, Iraq a…

> South Korea Just so you know, there used to be a single Korea. One of them is doing OK now, although it took like 35 years after the US invaded before SK transformed itself into a democratic country, which Koreans did IN SPITE of American support for their dictator. The other one is possibly the worst regime currently active on Earth. South Korea is really not an American FP win.

Korea kind of is a huge long-term win for the non-Communists; the more complicated foreign policy case would be Vietnam.
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