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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#851

Post by cutemonster »

orloffm wrote: post #339
darawk wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't entirely disagree but I think a slightly better framing is: It's not their fault, but it is their responsibility. Putin is a problem for the world, and it's a problem that can only be properly solved by the Russian people. Unfortunately, that means whether they deserve it or not, they are the group to whom pressure needs to be applied.

I am a Russian citizen. How it is my responsibility? I never supported Putin and hate him as much as anyone. They destroyed Moscow over the last 20 years, gave up on Russians left in former ex-USSR countries, created a separate society of asian immigrants, muted all opposition. How am I responsible? Should I buy a tank of gazoline and go burn Kremlin? Then what? Is every european responsible for not stopping NATO in…

> How it is my responsibility?

He might mean that since you live there, you have better chances to do something about Putin, than people outside. And you might know more about what makes sense or not.

Just as if you're inside a house burning down, you're in a better position to do something about it (say, saving a kid who had hid in a closet), that someone far away.

Although none of it was your fault

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#852

Post by CRConrad »

throwaway3968 wrote: post #740
koonsolo wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're forced into a conflict they don't want to be in, and are suffering the consequences. Ukrainians are also forced into a conflict they don't want. Unfortunately, it's up to both the Ukrainians and Russians to do something about it, not Ukrainians alone. The Ukrainians clearly made their decision. Now it's up to the Russian people to make theirs.

> Now it's up to the Russian people to make theirs. There's nothing we can realistically do. It's up to the military to start a civil war.

>> Now it's up to the Russian people to make theirs.

> There's nothing we can realistically do.

Then you get to collectively carry the responsibility for that "inability"; for, by not rising up as one against the dictatorship, passively allowing it to continue. That's what was seen as appropriate for the nation you fought in your Great Patriotic War, so why shouldn't it be appropriate for yours?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#853

Post by hnov »

ZGDUwpqEWpUZ wrote: post #514
hnov wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the international community wants to hold Russia accountable, it should pressure Western Europe to stop buying Russian gas. Infrastructure companies grandstanding is idiotic.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. Europe's dependence on Russian oil and gas exports has been a major topic of discussion - a search for "Nord Stream 2" might help you get up to date.

Are the existing gas pipelines shut off? Europeans could become the change they want to see and endure a couple of cold years and stop buying gas from places like Russia and Azerbaijan.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#854

Post by kungito »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #796
kungito wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

I'm never sure how to take these comments. Are you saying Ukraine is no big deal and anyone complaining about it should shut up, or are you saying it's a shame that people didn't take the other wars more seriously? Either way, you should be more specific in your complaint so people can disagree or not, without having to guess what you mean and inadvertantly assume you're pro-invasion and trying to undermine the globa…

I'm not complaining, I'm stating a fact. Take from it what you will. Why does it have to be something you can disagree with?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#855

Post by CRConrad »

bigboiseal wrote: post #766
koonsolo wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're forced into a conflict they don't want to be in, and are suffering the consequences. Ukrainians are also forced into a conflict they don't want. Unfortunately, it's up to both the Ukrainians and Russians to do something about it, not Ukrainians alone. The Ukrainians clearly made their decision. Now it's up to the Russian people to make theirs.

> The Ukrainians clearly made their decision. Now it's up to the Russian people to make theirs. Russia is a non-democratic country...

> Russia is a non-democratic country...

So was Nazi Germany. Everyone there still had to accept thorough "de-Nazification" after WW2, though.

(This makes it doubly ironic how exactly that is what Putler claims to be doing to Ukraine.)

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#856

Post by gspetr »

ukraineally wrote: post #779
teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

>This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I too am a trekkie and we could still obtain this vision. So far only world sanctions have been brought against Russia. If the Russian people…

The Federation is not the entire world, there were at least 4 more entities of that level who were distinct, and weren't particularly keen on joining the Federation.

Star Trek: Birth of the Federation captured this quite well in its endings representing Loss, Allied Victory, Domination ( 2/3 of the galaxy controlled) and Total Conquest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A8N1N-dREc

Contrast this with the Cardassians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy_RbUKsaj0

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#858

Post by boruto »

9214 wrote: post #411
blablablub wrote: post #269

What are the possibilities for an average russian citizen to leave russia and start over somewhere in the west? How about visas? Does anyone know?

In 2022: zero, unless you have relatives/friends from abroad who are willing to help. I'm mid-20s below-average Russian born and raised in a city with population of 19k (and declining), Ural region. Average salary here is around 200-300 USD, 400 if you are lucky. I emmigrated in 2019 to work with an international startup in Montenegro: and ended up being ostracized and harassed by my manager from another country (won…

You may not like the advice and may think it is 3rd world. but please do look at India, for a half decent developer salaries would start at 1000 USD - 2000 USD.

Most people definitely are not opposed to Russia, they are oblivious to international events.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#859

Post by jacquesm »

9214 wrote: post #837
hans_castorp wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but with the entire world openly opposed to my nation, I doubt that will ever happen. I think most people understand that this is Putin's war, not the war of the "Russian people". And many people I have spoken to in various demonstration against the war (in Germany), protested against Putin, not Russia. I did not see a single banner with "Stop Russia" - all referred directly to Putin.

The common narrative I see on tech forums since 24th Feb is this: "if various sanctions and blockings will make average Russians' life miserable enough (i.e. even more miserable than it already is), they will stand up and oppose the power they have been electing since 20-or-so years." There are a few issues here: 1. Anyone who goes against the ruling power and stands up as a leader of opposition gets forcefully silen…

Thank you for this post. Tough times. Let's hope someone higher up grows a pair and does something about it, because otherwise we will sleepwalk straight into something much, much worse.

FWIW: about those 40 year olds with families that can't do anything: they can, it's just that the perceived price is too high. But think about it from another perspective: how are you going to explain to your kids that you stood by and did nothing knowing full well what was going on? That is the question that is keeping me up at night right now.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#860

Post by jacquesm »

jgwil2 wrote: post #817
ceilingcorner wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really distressing, not only because it’s ethically wrong to blame groups of people for individual actions, but also because it’s pragmatically against the interests of the West. We gain nothing by escalating this.

I don't think you can really call this escalation. Escalation would be responding to military force in kind. Instead, the West is is confining itself to economic sanctions and material support. I don't really see how they can do less, frankly, without risking emboldening Putin to strike at Poland or the Baltics (thus involving NATO).

But we could do more... if Russia can use 'little green men' then so can we.
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