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Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

reuters.com

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Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#81

Post by tguvot »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #76
tguvot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google translate this: https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20... It was auto published on 26 on ria and bunch of other sites and than purged. It explains everything

"Can't translate this." - typically useful error message from Google.

Just copy/paste text. But overall idea .. "russia is restoring russian world by combining together russian people: greatrussian (russians), small russians (ukranians) and whiterussians... putin took upon himself historic mission of finally solving ukranian question... .. with each year it would have been harder and harder to bring ukraine back to russia... it doesn't means that ukraine as state dissappear but it recharted, restructured and returned to be part of the russian world... etc.. etc.. etc..

see the idea ?

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#82

Post by Hamuko »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #68
mike_d wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Measuring Russia by GDP is like measuring a bank robber by their tax return. They have a shit ton of dark money that isn't calculated as part of GDP. Their economy is also in much better shape even with the smaller official calculations, having external debt equal to 38% of GDP compared to 102% for the US.

I mean are you really saying that italian mafia declares everything? Let's do mafias GDP then, let's see who has it bigger (As italian, neapolitan)

Isn't crime already accounted for in the Italian GDP?

https://qz.com/212962/drugs-prostitution-and-smuggling-italy...

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#83

Post by rosndo »

kirso wrote: post #72

Just talked about this today with a few of my Russian friends. This only prompts Putin ratings to grow. It frustrates the opposition (30% of Russians). But it also makes the supporters hate the west even more. So if all these sanctions are there to frustrate people to create a coup and a revolution - its currently working in the opposite direction. EDIT: I don't mean it as something that I wish, just stating an opini…

You misunderstand. A coup by the people on the streets is tremendously unlikely, but the odds of a palace coup grows every day.

The people most hurt by these sanctions are those closest to Putin, the people who have made themselves fabulously wealthy by maintaining close ties to the government. Their quality of life has been most severely impacted by this move.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#84

Post by nnx »

scandox wrote: post #74
kirso wrote: post #72

Just talked about this today with a few of my Russian friends. This only prompts Putin ratings to grow. It frustrates the opposition (30% of Russians). But it also makes the supporters hate the west even more. So if all these sanctions are there to frustrate people to create a coup and a revolution - its currently working in the opposite direction. EDIT: I don't mean it as something that I wish, just stating an opini…

Going by history sanctions do tend to entrench authoritarian rulers. I still think there isn't any choice. He used the "Nuclear" word and now I think Europe's policy will be containment for a very long time. Edit: added "be"

> I still think there isn't any choice

I don't think we tried to push for Ukraine as neutral state, like Finland, did we? Does EU/NATO really NEED Ukraine to join them?

Seems like it would be a simple peaceful discussion worth having rather than risking more suffering. Discussion might not work... but the fact it's not even on the table is absolutely insane.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#85

Post by ajsnigrutin »

rosndo wrote: post #79
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, cuba working with the soviets caused USA to propose a LOT of sanctions against them (that are still there), and also planed a false-flag attack on US soil to get a 'reason' to attack cuba - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods ..so ukraine joining nato is not that much different. What putin is doing now is something along the Kosovo playbook... someone has interest in some area somewhere (u…

> .so ukraine joining nato is not that much different Yeah it is, the Baltics are already in NATO. Ukraine joining would not significantly change the balance of power in the region. Cuba on the other hand was far more significant because the Soviet Union did not otherwise have assets so close to the US. Also the US never invaded Cuba in the way Russia invaded Ukraine. Their actions were more comparable to Russian sup…

But russia has to stop nato somewhere... it was too weak to do it with the baltics, and it's doing that now.

USA definitely had the plan for a war with cuba, but it luckily didn't happen. They did start many other wars in the meantime, mostly on the other side of the world.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#86

Post by rosndo »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #85
rosndo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .so ukraine joining nato is not that much different Yeah it is, the Baltics are already in NATO. Ukraine joining would not significantly change the balance of power in the region. Cuba on the other hand was far more significant because the Soviet Union did not otherwise have assets so close to the US. Also the US never invaded Cuba in the way Russia invaded Ukraine. Their actions were more comparable to Russian sup…

But russia has to stop nato somewhere... it was too weak to do it with the baltics, and it's doing that now. USA definitely had the plan for a war with cuba, but it luckily didn't happen. They did start many other wars in the meantime, mostly on the other side of the world.

Nato is a defensive alliance, why exactly does Russia need to stop it? NATO would never attack Russia, a nuclear power capable of ending the world as we know it.

> USA definitely had the plan for a war with cuba, but it luckily didn't happen

This is a really weird way to write “USA decided not to fight a war with Cuba”, everybody makes all kinds of plans.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#87

Post by lnxg33k1 »

Hamuko wrote: post #82
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean are you really saying that italian mafia declares everything? Let's do mafias GDP then, let's see who has it bigger (As italian, neapolitan)

Isn't crime already accounted for in the Italian GDP? https://qz.com/212962/drugs-prostitution-and-smuggling-italy...

Ah alright I guess that's why we're still in G8 :D

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#88

Post by fundatus »

nnx wrote: post #84
scandox wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going by history sanctions do tend to entrench authoritarian rulers. I still think there isn't any choice. He used the "Nuclear" word and now I think Europe's policy will be containment for a very long time. Edit: added "be"

> I still think there isn't any choice I don't think we tried to push for Ukraine as neutral state, like Finland, did we? Does EU/NATO really NEED Ukraine to join them? Seems like it would be a simple peaceful discussion worth having rather than risking more suffering. Discussion might not work... but the fact it's not even on the table is absolutely insane.

The thing is "neutral state" for Putin means a russian vassal state. So not an option.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#89

Post by skissane »

lliamander wrote: post #37
klyrs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought he was cold and calculating until he attacked Ukraine. This looks downright ham-handed and heedless compared to the maneuvering of the decades leading up to now. He's made a damned fool of himself, if you ask me.

It looks stupid to me too. Which is precisely why I think there's information I'm missing. Like, I've seen arguments that the whole "Ukraine joining NATO" justification is just a pretext. But if that's just a pretext, what's the actual reason? I haven't seen a good answer yet. I honestly don't think we'll know the true story for decades.

> But if that's just a pretext, what's the actual reason? I haven't seen a good answer yet.

Because in Putin's mind, "Soviet" and "Russian" are synonyms. In other words, the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991 was to him the breakup of Russia, and as a Russian nationalist he sees that as a great tragedy. He blames it on the Communists for adopting a constitutional structure which contained within it the seeds of separatism; the Communists only ever meant it as lip-service, and as long as they remained in control that was all it was, but as they lost control those seeds began to sprout and 1991 was the result. To him, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Armenians, etc, are not neighbouring foreign nationalities, they are Russians, they are traditional ethnic minorities of the Russian nationality, just as he views Chechens, Tatars, Tuvans, etc, as being.

He wants to "Make Russia Great Again" by reversing the breakup of 1991, or getting as close to that goal as he possibly can. And annexing large parts of Ukraine and installing one or more puppet governments in the rest is, in his mind, an important step towards that ultimate goal.

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