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Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

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Re: Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

#151

Post by suction »

chrismorgan wrote: post #30
lpghatguy wrote: post #13

New JS frameworks always make for compelling hello world examples. Can you branch on state or use loops over data in Solid.js? The reason _why_ React has a virtual DOM is to enable more interesting relationships between your data and your presentation. Anyone can make a framework that makes the source code for an incrementing number look pretty! As an example of this point, check out the "Simple Todos" example for So…

> In React, we render lists by using regular JavaScript idioms like loops, arrays, and array methods like map. However in Solid.js, much like traditional templating languages, we get a construct like that reinvents a concept that's already in the language. Once you deal with larger amounts of data and need virtualised rather than fully-materialised lists, you start using different things in React as well. The fact of…

What JS framework would you choose to work with big datasets like, e.g. a data grid with half a million rows that should have a "filter as you type" functionality?

Re: Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

#152

Post by benatkin »

wonnage wrote: post #150
ihateolives wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't forget about having to pass key to each element in React. The simplicity of using map() is an illusion. That's one of the design decisions I don't fully understand. It knows that there should be a key there so why just not put it there silently and let me override it when I need, instead of screaming at me when I omit it.

The purpose is well-documented here: https://reactjs.org/docs/reconciliation.html#recursing-on-ch... And it also goes into why index is a poor key (it's basically the same behavior as with no key). Using object identity to detect inserts doesn't work either, because the map function is returning new React element objects on each render. Practically speaking if you know your items won't change, then omitting the key o…

So SolidJS has this solved elegantly? It lets you choose between object identity and index, and it doesn't have that caveat for object identity because it knows what's going into and not just what's coming out of it.

Don't omit the key in React unless you want warnings.

Re: Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

#154

Post by deckard1 »

parentheses wrote: post #82

This article hits on something I've felt for a long time. The idea that "hooks are superior" to me is ridiculous. If a linter is required to tell me when I'm writing a bug that is not immediately obvious, that is a failing in the framework to round those edges. Lints are not rounded edges! Solid is nice and _seems_ to fix the issues with hooks, but as another comment mentioned, the challenge is with building at scale…

React traded one set of footguns for another set. This is also after they fudged with the class component lifecycle methods before tossing in the towel on that entire API.

> If a linter is required to tell me when I'm writing a bug that is not immediately obvious, that is a failing in the framework

yep. They also commandeered the entire use* namespace just so they could get lint to warn when you put a hook outside the start of a function. Hacks on top of hacks.

Re: Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

#155

Post by cehrlich »

KronisLV wrote: post #108
preommr wrote: post #10

I swear we're just going around in circles because people only have a surface level understanding of these front-end frameworks, and the challenges with building at scale. react isn't about 'hooks', 'jsx', 'top-down-state', or 'component-driven architecture'. All these frameworks are component-based, can have top down state only (or do bottom up in react), can use things like jsx/hooks because it's just syntactic sug…

> All these frameworks are component-based, can have top down state only (or do bottom up in react), can use things like jsx/hooks because it's just syntactic sugar (vue has jsx support). Honestly, the boon of React is just how easy it is to create components, or at least how simple things were back in the day - it is exceedingly composable , moreso than AngularJS, Angular or Vue have been, at least in my experience.…

Zustand has solved the complexity of state management for me, although getting {employer} to adopt it is of course a different problem altogether.

It's really bizarre to me how poorly useContext works, in contrast to how good everything else in React is for the most part. Having a good, "official" global state management solution that requires little boilerplate would be a huge benefit.

Re: Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

#156

Post by littlecranky67 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #149
seer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but in my experience whenever I encounter an incomprehensible mess of hooks it usually ends up because devs were not using all the tools that react provides. For example a flurry of setStates could be wrapped up in one single state. If it gets too complex - into a reducer. Components that don’t benefit much from splitting up could have their business logic wrapped into a context, and let the view code be just…

> For example a flurry of setStates could be wrapped up in one single state. If it gets too complex - into a reducer You've just deoptimized your app, and your whole component will re-render on every change. > Components that don’t benefit much from splitting up could have their business logic wrapped into a context You did it again. More unnecessary re-renders. > it’s still performant and works True that 'it works',…

Why is performance always argument No. 1? The true rule is, code must be readable and maintainable first. THEN, if there are performance issue with the code (no theoretical ones, you HAVE to have a real-world profiling report of YOUR code in your hands when you argue about performance), you can refactor for performance.

Re: Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

#157

Post by jimmont »

preommr wrote: post #10

I swear we're just going around in circles because people only have a surface level understanding of these front-end frameworks, and the challenges with building at scale. react isn't about 'hooks', 'jsx', 'top-down-state', or 'component-driven architecture'. All these frameworks are component-based, can have top down state only (or do bottom up in react), can use things like jsx/hooks because it's just syntactic sug…

This is about "feels like" and me too--the little newsletter popup and lack of substance shows this. React became obsolete over the past few years as browsers increasingly adopted the mix of web components features (eg componentDidMount vs connectedCallback). Just using React, and the explanations for why a technology is and isn't used in an organization speaks to the level of practical knowledge and detritus in projects. That products survive this long with React illuminates how resistant the community is to... reading and doing work in the easiest, pragmatic way possible. Like why bother writing an article like this?

Re: Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

#158

Post by stupidcar »

MiddleMan5 wrote: post #21
preommr wrote: post #10

I swear we're just going around in circles because people only have a surface level understanding of these front-end frameworks, and the challenges with building at scale. react isn't about 'hooks', 'jsx', 'top-down-state', or 'component-driven architecture'. All these frameworks are component-based, can have top down state only (or do bottom up in react), can use things like jsx/hooks because it's just syntactic sug…

Slightly dismissive, but I agree the setInterval function was a little misleadingly contrived. The transition to functional components was to reduce the coupling between abstract functionality and DOM-related lifecycle events. React hooks are mostly about expressing where and when you want to memoize a value, with the default being not to. Once you learn what to look out for, and properly designing and review codebas…

What are you talking about? The setInterval example is completely idiomatic React hooks. It is literally given in the React docs:

https://reactjs.org/docs/hooks-faq.html#what-can-i-do-if-my-...

Re: Solid.js feels like what I always wanted React to be

#159

Post by [deleted] »

preommr wrote: post #10

I swear we're just going around in circles because people only have a surface level understanding of these front-end frameworks, and the challenges with building at scale. react isn't about 'hooks', 'jsx', 'top-down-state', or 'component-driven architecture'. All these frameworks are component-based, can have top down state only (or do bottom up in react), can use things like jsx/hooks because it's just syntactic sug…

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