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I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

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Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#51

Post by wbl »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31
walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

I would not take Elon and Tesla at face value. While they are currently going all in on cameras, I wouldn't put it past them to 180 and decide "turns out we need new hardware, and we're going to eat the cost considering our revenue and market cap." They recently filed to test new millimeter wave radar equipment operating at 60GHz [1], so I wouldn't say they're married to vision only if it turns out vision only isn't…

There's a word for engineers that program cars to break the law resulting in deaths, and one of the first law codes specifies the appropriate punishment.

Tesla is not operating in a way any ethical engineer should tolerate.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#52

Post by judge2020 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31
walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

I would not take Elon and Tesla at face value. While they are currently going all in on cameras, I wouldn't put it past them to 180 and decide "turns out we need new hardware, and we're going to eat the cost considering our revenue and market cap." They recently filed to test new millimeter wave radar equipment operating at 60GHz [1], so I wouldn't say they're married to vision only if it turns out vision only isn't…

To add, they also often have Lidar vehicles roaming around their Fremont factory and design center in Hawthorne, so they're definitely not ruling out any specific technology if it happens to provide measurable improvements at some time.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#53

Post by bombcar »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31
walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

I would not take Elon and Tesla at face value. While they are currently going all in on cameras, I wouldn't put it past them to 180 and decide "turns out we need new hardware, and we're going to eat the cost considering our revenue and market cap." They recently filed to test new millimeter wave radar equipment operating at 60GHz [1], so I wouldn't say they're married to vision only if it turns out vision only isn't…

This is patently what will happen when the time comes (if needed) that I'm surprised more people don't realize it.

Companies do it all the time - I'm not even sure it's really lying (as they "collectively" believe they'll be able to do it) but they are willing to pivot when the time is right.

Apple's famously done it - the App Store was never to be at first.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#54

Post by jowday »

8ytecoder wrote: post #33
jowday wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the AV space, so I guess you’ll just have to trust me. I assume Cruise internals look very similar to the internals at other AV companies, which I think is a safe assumption. >The sensors and automation decisionmaking is going to be identical, and that's where the hard parts are. Sensors will be very different. LIDAR prices are coming down but we’re still a while off from incorporating it into consumer vehi…

But that’s not what Tesla is doing! You’re absolutely right and it’s also a safer route (for others on the road) to go with robotaxis first. This is precisely why you can’t focus too much on competitors. GM and their CEO (who seems to be really smart) is focusing on Tesla here and trying to compete with them.

Tesla isn’t focused on robotaxis - they’re focused on trying to sell a premium ADAS feature their CEO over promised half a decade ago. Whcih is necessarily designed very differently from a robotaxi. It doesn’t make sense to try to force a stack built for robotaxis into a consumer ADAS car because you’d have to fundamentally rewrite the stack anyways. This is why GM had its own ADAS team while Cruise focused on robotaxis. I’m sure they’re looking at Teslas market cap and hoping they can generate hype by trying to say they’ll integrate Cruise tech, but that’s just not how these stacks works.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#55

Post by mandeepj »

What's common in these names - Steve (Apple), Satya, and Kyle?

They all rejected the job when it was first offered to them. It should be a case study and research topic. I think the takeaway here is - don't accept the CEO job right away; conditionally, you should be inside the company. At least that was the case with the above individuals.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#56

Post by reTensor »

rmason wrote: post #5

I'm in Michigan and I've watched the auto industry close up for a long time. I've got friends at the Big 3. GM decided it was better to put an adult in charge of Cruise. Someone they trusted and they thought had a clue on tech. Turns out it didn't work well. GM learned the hard way the founder was the best CEO of Cruise. There's a lot they do not understand about how startups and Silicon Valley work.

Kyle Vogt was removed from the CEO position in late 2018 after Cruise failed to make progress toward a number of milestones. The milestones were outlined as part of the Cruise acquisition.

Dan Ammann took over and made really substantial progress. Ammann is widely considered to be the reason Cruise is where it is today. His record of success was in sharp contrast to Vogt's consistent record of failure.

Unfortunately, Ammann disagreed with GM's CEO about Cruise's future as a business. Employees at my level of seniority don't know the details, but many of us are skeptical that Kyle is the right man for the job.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#57

Post by jowday »

dr_ wrote: post #23

Prediction: This is a prelude to becoming the CEO of GM. How well it works is important to the future of the company. From what I've read (Farhad Manjoo's article in the NYTimes about the new Escalade), it seems like it's fairly impressive.

The ADAS system in the Escalade has nothing to do with Cruise (confusingly). It’s developed by an in-house ADAS team at GM. Unlikely Kyle wants to become CEO of GM. Until recently the message seemed to be that Cruise was going to operate as it’s own company.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#58

Post by toomuchtodo »

wbl wrote: post #51
toomuchtodo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not take Elon and Tesla at face value. While they are currently going all in on cameras, I wouldn't put it past them to 180 and decide "turns out we need new hardware, and we're going to eat the cost considering our revenue and market cap." They recently filed to test new millimeter wave radar equipment operating at 60GHz [1], so I wouldn't say they're married to vision only if it turns out vision only isn't…

There's a word for engineers that program cars to break the law resulting in deaths, and one of the first law codes specifies the appropriate punishment. Tesla is not operating in a way any ethical engineer should tolerate.

GM, who owns Cruise, paid out claims for 124 deaths due to their ignition recall that they were aware of, did not disclose to regulators at the time, and had to forfeit $900 million to the United States government in 2014 [1]. Tesla's Autopilot has been attributed to 12 deaths [2].

Let they who is without engineering sin cast the first stone. Intent and risk appetite is a spectrum.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch...

[2] https://tesladeaths.com/

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#59

Post by ketzo »

martythemaniak wrote: post #38

You know, I think the Vision vs LIDAR is very narrow and won't be very relevant in the long-term. If you imagine the full robotaxi stack: cars, training, simulations, back testing, data sourcing, perception, driving decisions, etc, etc, the LIDAR vs Vision concerns only one small part of the stack. Critically, LIDAR still has to be trained in the same way cameras have to - it'll give you depth information, but you st…

That’s sort of like saying “the touchscreen is only one small part of the iPhone. The OS, the native apps, the camera, the App Store, app developers, hardware accessories, repair service are all part of the stack.”

You’re right, but that “small part” is absolutely critical to get right. It’s what allows the rest of the stack to be built; without that cornerstone, there’s no product.

There had been many attempts at touch controls for computers before the iPhone. Other smartphones were trying. None of them were remotely close to what Apple achieved with their first capacitive screen, and that began a massive change in the way people interacted with their device, and changed the world.

It’s like saying your roof is only “a small part of” your house. You’re right, on some level, but without that roof, there’s not much point in a really nice kitchen.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#60

Post by judge2020 »

sroussey wrote: post #34
walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

And you can just shine a Q-beam at such a car.

You could also draw some faint dotted white lines leading right into a concrete barrier, and pretty much every lane-keeping system will follow them.
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