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I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

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Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#41

Post by ModernMech »

walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

That's because Kyle competed with MIT in the DARPA Grand Challenge, which is where the architecture for the modern driverless car was battle tested. LIDAR was by far and away the enabling technology in those competitions. Every team that finished in the DUC had a Velodyne 64 LIDAR. They are that important.

For whatever reason, Tesla has decided to eschew this hard-earned wisdom, have treated their customers and the general public as an extension of their corporate research lab and their customers and others have paid the price for it with their lives.

During the DUC, contestants competed in an abandoned military base in the middle of the desert. In that environment, the vehicles were outfitted with all matter of flashing lights, emergency stop procedures, and all humans had to clear the area. That's what robot research was like in 2007. And our cars didn't have a verified track record of deaths!

Little did we know at the time, we could've just held the DARPA Urban challenge in the middle of downtown SF. Apparently we wouldn't even have needed to inform the unwitting public that an experiment involving a 2 ton machine that has killed people in the past was taking place in their midst.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#42

Post by z2 »

XCSme wrote: post #29
walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

> Relying entirely on cameras only requires the full intellect of a human who can make snap judgments about what's going on in a scene Aren't AI models already better at image recognition than humans? (I'm not suggesting that using LIDAR is not an improvement though).

I've been out of it for a while, but my understanding is that humans are still better at video recognition and extracting high-level information from moving videos, while the state of the art CV still tends to focus on rapid frame-by-frame static classification, with some semblance of persistence and motion strung together at the end.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#44

Post by WWLink »

walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

Don't forget, Tesla uses cheap 1280x960 cameras (citation needed - they may have upgraded)... pointing out a potentially dirty windshield.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#45

Post by jowday »

pm90 wrote: post #39
jowday wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, the idea of "a wire in the road" by which I mean something like cats-eyes in the road but with RFID tags placed every 40 feet, or some other common means maintained by the DOT that all cars can use to sense where they are, is neglected because every player in autonomous cars wants the "winner take all" method of being first, which will give them at least, a $25 billion market cap. You can safely assume…

I don't think anyone has seriously explored collaborating with DoT. If they had they would have at least talked about it. > In this case, you wouldn’t be able to rely on these external sensors being online with 100% uptime, so you’d necessarily be forced to build the capabilities to operate without them anyways. And adding external sensors and local communications and trying to deal with different standards and model…

Define “fully autonomous” - we have driverless cars in Phoenix and San Francisco right now - granted, with some pretty narrow constraints. Not as narrow as “needs custom hardware installed along every road to work”

Another thing to understand is that perception in the way you’re imagining these cameras would work isn’t really an issue for AVs right now. I don’t think the problem you’re describing is a real blocker for AVs.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#46

Post by ahmedalsudani »

WWLink wrote: post #44
walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

Don't forget, Tesla uses cheap 1280x960 cameras (citation needed - they may have upgraded)... pointing out a potentially dirty windshield.

Not sure about the resolution, but the sensor is rather large. Resolution isn't nearly as important as being able to see clearly in low light.

Re: dirty windshield. Humans see through those, and we have windshield wipers if visibility is impeded.

I'm still excited about the LIDAR possibilities but vision alone has done a remarkable job.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#47

Post by [deleted] »

walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

[deleted]

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#48

Post by judge2020 »

walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

The thing is that I can't find any examples of Tesla's vision only system in FSD Beta not detecting any objects - all the failures are on the 'driving AI' side, ie. it makes the bad decision to try to turn right into a cyclist despite the cyclist being displayed on the center screen[0].

0: https://twitter.com/WarrenJWells/status/1491487543455465472?...

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#49

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

bluGill wrote: post #32
walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

My problem with cameras is as a human I'm well aware there are things that I can't see and so i rely on faith. I've driven in dense fog trusting that nobody else would be stupid enough to do the same (fortunately taillights can be seen through fog, but not many other dangers that normally are not on the road, but if so they are dead). I often drive with sub in my eyes at dawn/dusk and trust that the road is clear. I…

i hope you at least slow down around blind bends and corners. that shit is scary. see people racing over such obstacles all the time. i assume there will instead be a crash or deer or corgi or child hiding behind every obstacle

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#50

Post by spikels »

walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

But obviously if it can be done with just cameras, that’s going to be the winning solution (cheaper, simpler, etc).

Let’s try a diverse set of strategies and see which one wins in the real world. Nobody knows for sure at this point.

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