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'50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

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Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#311

Post by reaperducer »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #142
reaperducer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the U.S., too. You must not go very many interesting places, or find yourself in very many interesting situations. I guess maybe a crypto debit card is good for people who lead plain lives. Like hanging around town and going to the movies and the candy store. But I require both cash and a real credit card for my life. Debit cards have failed me too often.

Okay - but now we are really picking at semantics here, aren't we? If i changed my answer to everywhere who accepts a debit card can accept crypto, does it really change the sentiment of what i'm trying to convey? Because at that point i can go on a tangent and say well, the USD is actually accepted at less places than BTC because i can use my debit card in mexico but you can't use USD.

So now we're talking about Mexico? You specifically stated that you were in the U.S. and talking about the U.S. in your original comments. I'm starting to believe that you are in neither, or have only a tourist's experience in either.

in mexico but you can't use USD

This is completely the opposite of my experience in Mexico, which is mostly in Chihuahua and TJ. I've never had any problems using USD in Mexico, and some people actually preferred it. And while plastic was widely accepted, cash was absolutely king.

I haven't been to Mexico since just before the pandemic started, but I don't believe the situation has changed all that much in that short a time.

Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#312

Post by LanceH »

freeAgent wrote: post #257
doomroot wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are called "orphan blocks" and they happen very regularly, like everyday. https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2170/how-often-f...

That’s not really a double spend issue, though. Usually the blocks are found within a very short time between them. Unless the double spender is coordinating with a miner, orphaned blocks are a non-issue. It’s 51% attacks that would be the real problem.

This is the answer to what I was asking. Not sure who I offended to get downvoted.

edit: I guess my point is that if you're selling coffee and making 100 $6 transaction, going 1 block deep probably isn't a big deal. If you're selling one car a month, you might not want to risk the small chance of an orphaned block -- but a one hour hold on title is a whole lot better than waiting for a check to clear.

Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#313

Post by jayd16 »

gruez wrote: post #230
jayd16 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, it's still private self interest in the exact same way. If a stolen credit card is used to buy Bitcoin, then Bitcoin is used in Steam, who eats the fraud and why would they not push against the others for restitution if it's all trackable?

> If a stolen credit card is used to buy Bitcoin, then Bitcoin is used in Steam, who eats the fraud The credit card company and/or cryptocurrency exchange would eat the fraud. >and why would they not push against the others for restitution if it's all trackable? This is moving the goalposts. We're not discussing whether such a scheme would benefit banks/credit card companies/crypto exchanges, we're discussing whether…

You're right that its just conjecture of whats possible. It didn't have to exist in 2017 to know today what was fraud today. It also doesn't need to exist at scale, you could simple use a sample. To me it seems feasible and within the means, and incentives of the parties involved, but again, just conjecture.

Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#314

Post by squeaky-clean »

gruez wrote: post #211
squeaky-clean wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does bestbuy run analytics on the cash they receive to see how much % of their cash purchases were "fraudulent"? Credit card companies do, yes.

Again, that's because credit card companies and/or merchants eat the cost of fraud. That's not the case with cash. The FBI isn't going to be raiding bestbuy's stores looking for stolen bills.

No but the Secret Service absolutely will. The FBI doesn't deal with counterfeit currency. But it is actually the primary reason the Secret Service exists.

Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#315

Post by m348e912 »

rosndo wrote: post #307
m348e912 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love it if you can share some evidence if that's as feasible as you think it is. I posted a link above that demonstrates otherwise.

As this video makes clear it is possible to relatively safely accept unconfirmed non-rbf transactions, but that requires you to take extra measures like waiting for a few seconds.

Yes, if you were going to send me $100 of non RBF-enabled crypto, I'd have no issue with waiting 3 seconds to feel reasonably sure the transaction would confirm.

Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#316

Post by [deleted] »

stale2002 wrote: post #298
NicoJuicy wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally had to approve with my bank to verify payment of a relatively large sum. My credit card got into a locked state for a while every month, when Vulture did a approved monthly charge. There are plenty of systems that verify things out of the ordinary. It's not because you haven't encountered it, that they aren't there. Additionally, stolen credit cards can be marked as stolen. Which would block any future pa…

You don't understand what people are saying. The BTC that someone is sending you, isn't being charged back. You can't chargeback BTC. That doesn't make any sense. > There are plenty of systems that verify things out of the ordinary. There is no system that checks if the BTC is out of the ordinary, no. > It's not because you haven't encountered it Feel free to point to anywhere at all, that is doing a verification on…

[deleted]

Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#317

Post by olalonde »

EamonnMR wrote: post #215
olalonde wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do believe that you get to keep cash. I don't think I've ever heard of an instance of "dirty cash" getting seized back from a merchant. Do you have an example of that?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_Unit...

That is designed to seize cash from criminals not from third parties they bought stuff from.

Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#318

Post by olalonde »

giaour wrote: post #194
olalonde wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do believe that you get to keep cash. I don't think I've ever heard of an instance of "dirty cash" getting seized back from a merchant. Do you have an example of that?

No, but I don't really have an example of a specific credit card chargeback, either. At least in the US, the police can seize the cash as evidence, and their duty is to return it to the rightful owner, not whoever happened to have it at the time of seizure.

There is plenty of evidence that credit card charge backs are a thing, I don't think anyone would challenge their existence.

> At least in the US, the police can seize the cash as evidence, and their duty is to return it to the rightful owner, not whoever happened to have it at the time of seizure.

They do this with cash found in possession of criminals or suspects but do they do this with third parties not involved in crime? If someone unknowingly sells a car or a house to a criminal, can the cash they received for it be seized? What about legal fees. If a lawyer was found to have been paid with "dirty" money, can the cash be seized? What about cash spent at supermarkets? At the hospital? Etc. I've never heard of such a thing which is why I was asking for an example.

Re: '50% of transactions were fraudulent' when Steam accepted Bitcoin for payments

#320

Post by nurettin »

srcreigh wrote: post #241
gambiting wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then please explain what is difficult here. You initiate a purchase with bitcoin, valve instantly grants you access, then few hours later valve checks if the transaction has been confirmed in the blockchain or not. If it hasn't, then the entitlement is removed. What's not simple about it?

What about people who do this 10x a day to play free games forever?

Are you suggesting that there may be a human being on earth who has the tenacity to enjoy games while creating new accounts, pulling off successful bitcoin heists every 1-2 hours and risking losing their save games? And doing that forever?

This website is just surreal.

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